Rape Eroge Really Banned
- Categories: Games, News
- Date: Jun 3, 2009 03:27 JST
- Tags: Amazon, BDSM, Censorship, Eroge, Mass Media, Politics, Raep, USA
After the previous confusion, Japan’s leading adult game classification body has bowed to feminist pressure and banned the sale and manufacture of so-called “rape” games.
The “ban”, initially invented by a broadcaster, has now been passed by the EOCS, the major censorship body for eroge in Japan, in the special meeting held to control the damage spreading from the Rapelay media fiasco.
The spineless wretches representing their various companies at the event were apparently resigned to their fate, and supinely opted to pass the ban, presumably in the hopes of averting legislative attention from politicians with nothing better to do in the midst of economic malaise. The meeting itself was an informal gathering, with no voting or otherwise.
Most concern apparently focused on just how far the ban would go (for example, banning BDSM completely as almost all fictional works of such incorporate rape), with some companies understandably concerned over what would happen to their products currently in development. Concerns centred on such crucial issues as whether monsters or tentacles would be problematic.
It is also thought that particular attention will fall on packaging (and titles), with the actual content perhaps not given such scrutiny.
Some discussion actually concerned whether the industry should drop the slightly euphemistic term for its products currently used, “bishoujo games”, in favour of “adult games” or similar, probably because the “beautiful girl game” moniker is inappropriate in the current climate of moral hysteria.
The details of the deliberations are provided by a member of the Abel Group who attended the event.
As previously explained in detail, the ban will only affect members of the EOCS group; this accounts for most companies in the industry, but as ample alternatives to classification at EOCS exist, the real effect may just be to cause a variety of cunning dodges within and without the organisation.
Notably, the EOCS previously banned games with loli or incest content, but this proved totally ineffective (perhaps as designed), whilst allowing the body to present a facade of “responsibility” (if appeasing moralists can be considered such) to those who might otherwise fret.
The current situation looks set to develop along similar lines, as long as certain interfering feminist politicians and international groups are placated into not pursuing more far-reaching legislation.
Were these elements to pursue a full ban in law, it seems unlikely it would end with just games, as clearly adult video and ero-manga would have to be subjected to the same criteria at some point (since the games in question are actually visual novels rather than games per se, and possess about as much interactivity as a book).
This would eventually end up colliding with actual novels if pursued with any consistency, so it seems a major Constitutional issue would then loom, as the Japanese Constitution is fairly protective of free speech. This is probably not the sort of easy victory feminist politicians on a “protect the children” ticket are looking to pursue…
Here is a timeline of events to recap:
An Irish rag on a slow news day picks up the story that importers have been selling Rapelay via Amazon. The theme is that the game encourages rape and is child pornography.
Amazon completely drops the product, including in Japan. Other retailers soon follow suit.
Feminist busybody group “Equality Now”, which organises spam campaigns to keep its members busy without actually having to deal with problems directly, targets the game, accusing it of human rights violations and telling the Japanese government it should be banning this sort of thing, like low crime paradises such as the UK.
The developers tell the foreign feminists to get lost.
Soon after the Rapelay developers cave in and completely remove the game from distribution.
Equality Now’s Japanese lawyer (the group has no presence in Japan) drums up anti-eroge media attention.
A Japanese diet member, an avowed feminist, picks up on the scandal and starts calling for a ban. Objections start with the opposition and minor parties and soon the ruling party jumps onto the bandwagon.
A “study group” is organised to decide how best to ban the games.
Broadcaster TBS falsely reports that the EOCS has banned the games.
The EOCS bans the games.
At no point at any time has any evidence that such games (which amount to illustrated novels) contribute to sexual assault been presented.
Well woman just took one more thing guys like. You just opened the flood gates.
Just like you said.
There are perverts.
They play eroges, instead molesting others.
Less eroges - more perverts on the streets...
hey! thats RAPE! its good that shit is banned! and i wont take it back!!!
after I rape you you wont say the same
Are you so bad at raping that your victims have never plead for MOAR?
You won't be saying that once Krauser-san is done with you
Rape has been banned in Japan for over 60 years, stupid.
Oh, Krauser-san! o,o!
Banning it doesn't erase the existence of human wants... If the person wanna have sex but no1 is willing to do with him/her, the feeling of RAPE will come, despite the person ever play RAPE Game or not...
All Animals RAPE, only human use love as connection... Do you think Dogs go to date b4 they have sex?
Banning it may increase the number of RAPE in some country, RAPE Games help people masturbate to reduce their sexual need, but since it's banned maybe people would have no choice but to RAPE in real life.
RAPE.
Eleven times per second, RAPE!
From what I've read, most rapists commit for the power they hold over the victim, not necessarily for sexual urges.
Well you're a faggot.
u pervs! FUCK U ALL!!! i wonder what yr little "RAPE" cracks will be if yr sister, mother, brother or any one that u care of gets hurt in that?
can't rape the willing
+
all women are sluts
+
it's not rape if they came
=
there was never any rape, just tsundere having smex
What would you say if I just blow your fucking brains out instead of raping you, shithead?
Someone can't tell the difference between fantasy and reality~
I play games where you murder cute, helpless animals in order to murder stronger cute, helpless animals (aka: RPGs) but I certainly would not do this in real life.
Learn the difference between real people and game characters you moron. Who the hell cares if people rape fictional characters in a fictional setting? They have no emotions. They have no flesh. They are not people.
the comments r getting violent looks as ur raping with words, jk. honestly if ur banning rape games cuz the "incentivate" to rape u have to rape every kind of games that "incentivate" to b revolted, to kill, to steal, etc. i quoted incentivate cuz its stupid to think games incentivate, so far i never saw a game incentivate the player to do any of those things. and comon they r freaking games not movies no real person is hurt or raped or anything, so y so much fight cuz of those games? cuz some stupid jerk found fun to do the same thing that he saw in a game? cuz if it is take note GAMES DONT INCENTIVATE U, U INCENTIVATE URSELF WITH GAMES. im not much of rape games but i just cant take it, i mean its just like i said if they ban rape games cuz of incentivation how far from the same destiny r the others with violence and stuff? if u ban all those kinds of games what u have to play? pokemons? pac-man? oh sry no pac man it incentivates to eat ppl i guess and no pokemon either cuz incentivates to abuse animals. u'll pretty much end up playing sports or tetris. i can only think of 1 word to resume all: LAME.
IN MOTHER RUSSIA, EROGE RAPES YOU!
Perverts may use game as an alternative, but you can't say that the games don't make them sicker as they sink deeper into their dirty fantasies.
Plus, the games may also create more molesters, which creates a paradox when connected to your theory...
Rape (no matter what kind) is wrong and should be punished and dealt with severely.
~ and if someone took an idea/premise from a game, placing it as fact and reality, then that person has some serious fantasy/reality issues, which need to be looked at.
No one can really determine what goes on/in a persons mind and what triggers the emotion to cause such an act.
I feel that its the media, in addition, to those groups who like to control, place fear, and feed conspiracy ideas into people heads that need to be watched closely, because they are the ones doing the raping.
and as Anon stated:
"I don’t believe these games should be banned (gives actual rapists an excuse for their actions)"
Ndeed, and if I am reading right I would also add, it will also mean that their lawyers will use the typical defence as an excuse to help their client to get away with it.
Games do not create a criminal, its these people who don't know the difference between reality/fantasy that are the problem.
Yeah, let's ban everything but Disney games cause they create psychos, killers, etc etc etc...
Fail statement is fail.
Hell,
EVEN Disney has subliminal tones to lure down the road of self destruction and deviant behaviour!
Watching Dumbo as a child caused me to experiment with LSD because of that one scene where Dumbo was all whacked out on hallucinogenic substances.
Can someone please punish Disney for this crime?
@Michio: it's a good thing you didn't watch Alice in Wonderland....
btw, Remember..
..aladin? It encouraged stealing! Today you steal an apple and tomorrow you marry the sultans daughter xD
@Deth
So what your saying is its wrong to "rape" a fictional character, right? So do you play any FPS or RPGs cuz you kill fictional people/creatures in those so wouldn't your logic also make those wrong too? Just asking.
let ban all online games that have pvp then, since they kill other human character.
They `might` go kill people in reality after influenced by that.
Ban also all games/movie that involve killing human character.
Your argument is moot unless you actually have correlated evidence.
@Endersgame
No, Rape in 3d form is wrong... (I should have clarified) ~ that's what I meant.
It...is...a...ban..on...FANTASY.
Sure real rape is bad, but don't fucking take away our fantasies. Hell, let's ban all books with rape sequences in them, or hey, how about all that 3-d porn that depicts fantasy rape. You know what? let's just ban all naughty thoughts all together, I'm sure the world will be a safer place now.
... also ...
Yes, I play FPS and RPG's.
Yea, at times, when I type, my mind thinks too fast for my fingers. - >.<
My bad on that....
If this would go on, we may say bye to even nekomimi because its zoophilia. T_T
What would hapen after banning WoW?? I'd like to see it. =^_^=
I'd love to see that as well. Everyone'd revolt.
But WoW won't get banned, so long as uncle sam still gets a cut.
about those subliminal wods that come in musics games and movies i cant shake the feeling that some r made up. but either way i think its wrong to think that the producers have anything to do with it. cuz if u turn every word backwards u always get another statement and some not so bright, so i think those subliminal words r work of ppl with to much time on hands and nothing else to do. some r even using that to get or attention to get famous or just to do some kind of blackmail.
You do realise that while there is no evidence suggesting rape games drive people to rape in reality, there is also no evidence towards your suggestion.
I don't believe these games should be banned (gives actual rapists an excuse for their actions) but I fail to see the big deal with banning rape games. Is 2D rape that popular?
Whether its popular or not doesnt matter, its the idea that just because something includes controversial material in it it should be banned. Thats like saying lets ban video games that include guns and murder because they are morally wrong.
It's called Freedom of Speech. It doesn't matter whether you like what it protects, because one day someone will say something you do like should be banned.
You give in an inch, and you'll lose a mile. This is why Freedom of Speech is so important in the first place.
Without conclusive unbiased studies that CLEARLY show there's a correlation between those who play games with rape in them and those that actually go out and rape someone, there is absolutely no reason they should be banned.
This applies to all sorts of subjects that are the victims of bans.
hear hear, fuck censorship! freedom of speech is perhaps one of the most important liberties and those that say rape games should be banned have the same attitudes as those that say 'Huckleberry finn' and other important literatures should be censored from the public. Like prohibition of alcohol, banning a human desire is not a feasible action.
IT's also hard to ban a 'human desire' that is existent in almost ALL the other animals in the world.
Let's face facts: rape serves a purpose in the animal kingdom: to allow a male who has no other options to get females to spread his genes.
Sad fact of the matter is that most of the rapist are being CREATED by the feminists today with their 'use sex as a weapon against men ladies!" attitudes.
It's not rape it's surprise sex. Get with the times...
“Equality Now . . . accusing it (Eroge Games) of human rights violations.”
Funny, but this is the first I’ve heard that fictional 2D characters have human rights to violate.
In any case, since the violations exist only in the minds of the person viewing this material, prosecuting it would, in effect, be prosecuting a thought crime.
why are feminists so worked up about our eroges while in certain totalitarian nations, REAL women are being sold as sex slaves and etc.? its like they know that they cant beat the Chinese government or the North Korean regimes and etc., so they go against the easiest and most illogical target.
Because feminists today don’t have anything better to do. Its really kind of sad really. The women’s activists of old fought for something important like the right to vote, join the military, and workers rights. Now we have feminists bitching at things like women no being allowed to play in an all men’s golf tournament and freedom of speech because a video game depicted a women in an unflattering way.
All right, that's it: starting today I became wholehearted supporter of abortion ban.
Not that I have personally anything against it - it just the best way to see all these feminist nazi faces twisted in anger.
All aboard the express train to Rapeville!
Count me in.
*already pre-order the train's ticket*
But I don't want to get raped.
Well, I'm female, and I love rape eroge too...
...
Now I hate feminists even more than before (and I thought more hatred would be impossible...).
are you joking i have never heard of a girl like rape eroge manga/game ???
They are delicious and nutritious and part of a balanced diet every growing girl needs
I bet you never heard of BDSM/sexual submission for pleasure too.
I saw girl watching rape hentai with hes boyfriend at lanparty... there is always different kind of people in this world.
Women like rape animu and eroge just as much as guys.
It's a mistake to assume all guys like it and no girls don't. I remember reading some women's magazine survey that reported that the number one sexual fantasy of their readers was rape.
I think it was Cosmo? haha.
well I was a little bit surprise. anyway I can only hope there are other things that are more violence then this don't get banned.
"Women like rape animu and eroge just as much as guys."
" I remember reading some women’s magazine survey that reported that the number one sexual fantasy of their readers was rape."
Yeah, because actually linking to sources is way overrated and unnecessary.
(and as a 'prebuttal' to those who'd respond "well nobody links to sources that show that rape games encourage the incidence of rape", I'd like to point out that I don't think/expect any such sources of that nature exist.)
So ultimately it's word against word. And 'women like rape games just as much as men' sounds like a -much- stranger thing to claim than 'rape games lead to rape fantasies lead to rape'. But hey, this is just my common sense talking. Like I said, word against word.
I'm a girl, I played the game and it was hot, so to each their own, I guess.
BTW, 2D game is not real, that's why I could enjoy it.
Way to ignore Ametista's and Atma's comments. yaku just delivered another testimony. And unfortunately, teh internets has not yet developed the capability to link to print media. If you still want some linkage, this [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_fantasy] is the best I could come up with for now.
Is it so hard to imagine that girls who like to be sexually submissive from time to time would be able to enjoy rape themed games? Of course, statements like "Women like rape animu and eroge just as much as guys" oversimplify matters a bit, but still...
One thing I'd really like to know: as a radical feminist, what do you think about the shitload of yaoi rape games out there that are so popular with the fangirls?
───
Note to Artefact: For some reason my previous 2 attempts to post this didn't show up. The last one had the ID 180164. Since other comments appeared in the mean time, I'm assuming that they somehow got lost. If they happen to show up later, maybe you can be so kind and delete them for the sake of not having 3 identical walls of text obstructing the flow of discussion here.
@kokopure
"And ‘women like rape games just as much as men’ sounds like a -much- stranger thing to claim...[followed by typical troll puke]"
Wow, both sexist and forgetful.
You had a long argument with Atma the last eroge-ban thread.
She thought you were just as egomaniacal and bullying as the males who frequent this site no doubt think you are.
I'm sure she'd love to discuss your view that you are the only female voice on planet Earth in the SanCon IRC with you. You can exchange pictures to prove to each other you have vaginas. I know it may blow your mind that having a vagina doesn't force someone into loudly and rudely hating sexual deviancy, but seeing you make this trivial prejudiced argument is depressing. Is the KKK next on your list to join in this prejudism campaign of yours? Would anyone be surprised, by this point?
WTF Artefact, why did my comment end up in the spam filter? >_>
"I saw girl watching rape hentai with hes boyfriend at lanparty… there is always different kind of people in this world."
This made me lol extremely hard.
Alright, I decided to not rely on Artefact looking for my lost comment and just try it a bit differently this time *sigh*
@Kokopure:
Way to ignore Ametista's and Atma's comments. yaku and Octovixen just delivered further testimony. And unfortunately, teh internets has not yet developed the capability to link to print media. If you still want some linkage, this is the best I could come up with for now:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_fantasy
Is it so hard to imagine that girls who like to be sexually submissive from time to time would be able to enjoy rape themed games? Of course, statements like "Women like rape animu and eroge just as much as guys" oversimplify matters a bit, but still...
One thing I'd really like to know: as a radical feminist, what do you think about the shitload of yaoi rape games out there that are so popular with the fangirls?
Shuu, that's exactly the point I was making.
I never said "women don't like rape games", nor did I say "there's not a fetish for being dominated". Hell, -I'm- a fan of some good bondage.
My exact point was: Women do not like rape games as -much- as men.
I did not ignore anyone.
If anyone feels free to contest the point I -actually- made, be my guest.
@Shuu
"In one study of college-age women, over half had engaged in such fantasies..."
Excellent link.
"Accounts of women exploring the fantasy of raping men are usually confined to feminist literature or fetish communities"
LOL! They're causing all this drama just because they want to Dom to our Sub >_< I wonder how many of them actually are getting off from all this...
Good to see you in one of these discussions again, Shuu ^_^ (and I always enjoy what long-timers Chris/Michio/Atma have to say)
I like how this time around it seems the majority of commenters are taking a more thought-out rational approach to things. Even those who don't like the content of what's being censored [http://journal.neilgaiman.com/2008/12/why-defend-freedom-of-icky-speech.html], still have to admit victimless fiction/speech is an important protected right.
SanCon is doing its part to help raise awareness of these topics, as well as to keep the general anti-censorship think tank well oiled.
@shuu: I've played both Enzai and Absolute Obedience (yaoi games) that depict rape and they're just as hot as rapelay.
For me in fiction, everything goes because it's not real and any sensible adult human should know how to separate fiction from reality. That's why I never complain when guro and other fetishes I'm not partial to pop out on my face, as long as they're fiction (drawings, writings, sculptures, games...)
@yaku
You are a perfect human being.
Clone yourself.
"My exact point was: Women do not like rape games as -much- as men"
Well, that's how I perceive it too. I can't really argue with that. (It just sounded to me like you were completely neglecting that girls can enjoy them). I think that the greatest chunk of this gap can be attributed to the fact that most women still don't play computer games (also my perception, I can't back this up with anything, but I'm sure you'll agree). But with Wii & Co. introducing a lot of female people to the thought of playing games on an overpowered calculator, that gap might start to dwindle in the future.
Now, would you be so kind to answer that last question in my post (the one yaku answered already)? I'm really interested to hear your opinion on that.
Also, thanks to Artefact for rescuing my 4th pathetic attempt to please the spam filter...
I'm a girl and I enjoy Rape and other such Eroge as well. It's all about fantasy and submission.
The sickos are the people who confuse fantasy with reality. I know plenty of people who enjoy video games of all types and they certainly don't find themselves with the ergs to go and make those things a reality. They know better. Games are for escape. When you're done playing you put it away and come back to reality.
And there are of course plenty of messed up people out there who Don't play these games and still manage to have plenty imagination to commit all sorts of atrocities.
Shuu:
"One thing I’d really like to know: as a radical feminist, what do you think about the shitload of yaoi rape games out there that are so popular with the fangirls?"
Firstly, as a lesbian, these games hold no sway over me personally. I'd say that they perhaps don't have the same effect as RapePlay would on a male audience, since statistically (in the US, at least) 98.9% of those arrested for rape are male (source: http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/cius2007/data/table_42.html )
Again, this is only a statistic from the US, as I'm not sure which Japanese governing body is responsible for collecting such information on Japan (or if I could even read it).
But essentially, I would say that although the effect may not be exact, it's still not helpful. The casting of rape in a positive light, even (or should I say 'especially') in a product with a very high female fanbase, will have the effect of belittling the severity of the crime of rape in said consumers' minds.
That is my personal opinion.
If you were asking what I think the law will cover, then yes, I think that the new law will cover yaoi games as well, which could potentially cause problems if the female fanbase acts up. I actually didn't anticipate that outcome, so thanks for alerting me to that possibility.
Anyway, I guess we'll see in time anyway.
"But essentially, I would say that although the effect may not be exact, it’s still not helpful. The casting of rape in a positive light, even (or should I say ‘especially’) in a product with a very high female fanbase, will have the effect of belittling the severity of the crime of rape in said consumers’ minds."
What the consumer consumes does not necessarily reflect their views.
I was asking for your personal opinion on their acceptability, which I of course completely disagree with again. But thanks for answering anyway.
"[...] which could potentially cause problems if the female fanbase acts up. I actually didn’t anticipate that outcome, so thanks for alerting me to that possibility."
A large number of girls voicing opposition to the ban would be a setback indeed. Seeing your sweet victory endangered? =P
Well, I don't think the "law" (again, this is not a law) will cover yaoi at all. Actually, I'm 100% certain it won't. No "equality" group ever complained about yaoi rape. One of the measures discussed by the EOCS was to never mention "rape" and "girl" together within the title of a game. Other directives will likely follow a similar principle. I'm sure you can see where this is heading.
Unless some feminist group explicitly complains about the rape of males in Japanese boy love games (would they?), yaoi will be given free reign. Not that I mind. Any game is acceptable to me, and I think it's only fair that all the dominant girls out there get their fun too. After all, I don't have to play it.
The thought of raging legions of fujoshi laying waste to the land should yaoi rape get banned one day is pretty amusing though...
Haha, that was unexpected. I'm male and don't like rape games/ I don't necessarily hate them, just not my cup of tea.
Yeah i like rape eroges too, and guro and other stuff, big deal.
I hate those feminists too, they only make to see our genders as assholes and stupid and weak, everything what they deny or want to fight over off.
I really hate that's the reason of banning eroges... feminist...
anyway, yeah rape it's a lower act, i know it's a issue, but banning rape eroges? withouth any real proof? :s it's kinda sad and makes me worry.
"Hatred only breeds more hatred. It all just feeds on itself."
- Kei "Edge" Nagase
Ace Combat 5: The Unsung War
I agree with Octovixen. Banning rape eroges without any proof is causing me to wonder if the U.N. is being controlled like a puppet.
*sigh* Watch the rest of the world now use this as a stepping stone to try to make Japan conform to what they view as being correct. I am disgusted that this was accepted.
You are not the only one. The fact is that the United States and the rest of the world has totally been sissified by these radical feminists, who REAL motive is to make just being a man illegal sometime down the road.
Let's be real here: most radical feminists are man-hating dykes! That's a bottom line thing here, most of them are simply man-haters and should be dismissed out of hand.
The fact that if males die out anywhere near the next jump in evolution will result in extinction probably won't matter to radical feminists.
heh actually Extium I read in a news article that a scientist discovered a way to change unfertilized ovum into sperm cells so yeah evolution will be screwed but extinction isn't
scary thought huh?
the scientist who did it was guy as well!
does this also cover anything that might start as rape and end as consensual as well?
They do not yet know...
Its not about rape eroge being banned - its about the approval for such stupid bans!
Apparently, what commentators are interested in shows otherwise.
... this whole matter is just retarded. What the feminists should be focusing on is preventing ACTUAL rape, and not caring about these games. By removing such games, it may actually contribute to a higher rate of rape cases, as if you ban something, then the more likely people will want to do it. Perfect example is underage drinking. I highly doubt this will work, and it will only screw up the industry.
I hope it's true though, that they are only saying it, and not going to actually remove the rape content. Though I'm not saying I'm a fan of rape eroge's, I'm just pissed off that they are actually caving in to pressure from a bunch of idiots with nothing better to do. It's like having a whole in your ship, and instead of trying to find ways to stop the leak and plugging up the whole, you are worrying whether you will have enough food supply to allow you to survive for the rest of the month.
I don't understand why people are so quick to try getting things banned. Do they not care -at all- about Freedom of Speech?
Not only are they disregarding Freedom of Speech, they will just create a greater desire for the banned goods. It's our nature to rebel.
That's true. Man yearns for what he does not have.
Hey, they don't care about that, since their REAL motive somewhere down the line is to turn men into women's slaves!
I am serious here: look at what the radical fem-nazis are doing, and you will see that is their 'endgame' as the saying goes.
Again... rape is a violent crime, not wholly motivated by sexual desire. It is the result of wanting to dominate someone, not because you have an overactive libido.
If you're going to go out and rape/kill someone from playing a video game, you have some deeper psychological issues.
I've met some guys who swore off sex. They are some of the most psychologically unbalanced individuals in existence.
Sex.... the act itself....... releases feel-good endorphins which lower blood pressure and other factors which could cause significant problems later. Physical problems too, such as an increase in overall aggression and cardiovascular problems also.
Taking away *harmless* outlets for sexual frustration makes it more likely you'll see actual rape being carried out more and more.
I wish people were less short-sighted. My dick has one eye and IT can see the long-term effects of banning this stuff better than any of those self-serving polichickens and foaming-at-the-mouth feminazis ever could. ><
Right. I prefer sitting at home, jacking off with my Tenga while looking at 2D, instead of going out and chasing whores for sex. Apparently this makes me a loser, but hey, enjoy your STDs, HIV, emotional complications, and pregnancy. I'm not sure when it became "cool" to get laid.
I'm waiting for a serious relationship. I don't desire sex at all. Until then, I have a healthy sex life with my hand.
You do desire sex, therefore, you masturbate.
Learn what your body tells you.
I desire to orgasm, not sex. ^___^
I can agree with that one Michio, the STD and pregnancy thing is what makes me off it the most. I can't even find a girl worth talking to anymore. Thank god for healthy releases ^_^
While I have no problems with how you may pleasure yourself, it's important to remember that frequent masturbation lowers your libido, thus making you less inclined to actually pursue a serious relationship. It's a lot easier for a guy who is unaccustomed to deep relationships to fall back to masturbation for his sexual urges than to pursue sexual relationships with another person, and while it might be safer in theory, it can also be a serious inhibiting factor in your love life.
I'm not trying to urge you to stop doing what your doing; however, it's important to understand that the safety net you create for yourself by doing this can also be a serious problem of procrastination.
Just masturbate less mono? I think I can handle restraining myself if that became a problem...
imo, having a lower libido lets you think beyond your dick when dealing with the opposite sex.
You say that you end up single that way? Well, maybe it's because that's far more logical.
Who cares if some people don't like 3d pigs? Isn't that great? Population control for otakus and the general populace alike = great!
that's an irrelevant argument in my opinion, just as valid as "Perverts may use game as an alternative, but you can’t say that the games don’t make them sicker as they sink deeper into their dirty fantasies."
both arguments completely miss the point, which is the "you don't ban the bible" argument
BZZZZZT! WRONG! The fact is that rape is VERY motivated by sexual desire from what I have seen. Most of them men who rape are people with VERY high libidos or with normal libidos who are not 'getting any' from any female.
That's true with the pedosexuals who rape as well: we made them 'illegal', so the rape rates went up DRAMATICALLY with children and teenagers.
It's time to realize that rape IS linked to sexual desire and is EXTREMELY RARELY linked to 'someone wanting to dominate someone else'.
Fuck you EN, just... fuck you.
Equality Now is just a bunch of faggots. Not womens. I haev some respect to gays & transvestite as long they don't ask me to join "their world", but annoying fags ike EN?? FUKK IT!!
I feel bad for not reading your article Artefact, but the title "Rape Eroge Really Banned" is sufficient.
You won't mind, right?
Enjoy your total ignorance.
From reading all the comments, I don't think half the people read the article before heading straight for the "Post comment" link.
Actually I did read the whole post. I'll admit some of the subtler meaning behind it was lost on me, but not the gist.
Still.... it's depressing to think about. There are much more worthy pursuits in life than trying to force your own morals or points of view upon others, as the loudest objectors of rape eroge (or pornography in general) have been doing.
Miroku72, the fact is that most of those people who are so willing to enforce their 'morals' and points of view on everyone else are also usually not adhering to those 'morals'.
Fact is that most of the most outspoken people against pedosexuals are pedosexuals themselves, and are using it as a smokescreen to hide their doinking of children.
Same thing for homosexual haters: they are homosexuals themselves, and are using their outspokenness against it to hide them having sex with someone of the same sex.
It's time to realize that most of these people are the WORST kind of hypocrites imaginable who are 'do as I say, not as I do' types of people.
Well, Leon has a point. Writing "Rape Eroge Really Banned" when technically they're not is kind of sensationalist. I fully acknowledge that a healthy dose of polemic is in order considering the circumstances and possible implications of this "ban", though.
I take that back. After researching the significance of the EOCS and the likely nature of the impending restrictions, it seems like they are banned for good now. The title is appropriate.
I thought they can just switch to other boards?
The only other one is the CSA, and considering the governmental involvement in that organization, it's not exactly the best choice to publish games that already are under heavy political pressure. Any further bans could easily take the form of a law then. If they want to publish decidedly rape themed games, they'll have to do it doujin style. But unfortunately I don't think they're GAR enough to do that.
Then make a new one.
I am tired of explaining how optimism can ruin OTAKU PRODUCT.
Now you guys get this.
Guro games are not banned, slaughter games are not banned, zombie-eat-human-brain games are not banned.
But rape games are banned.
Yes you otakus are lazy, yes you are shy to publicly support eroge.
Should you continue to be like this, EVERYTHING THAT OTAKU LIKE WILL BE BANNED.
Trying to support this stuff will only get you labeled as a sicko unfortunately.
sadly it's true
It also seems that people only know complaining.
Nothing detailed, nothing constructive, nothing effective, and nothing philosophical is being discussed.
Good.
Even this thread continues with a million replies, nothing will be changed.
Yeah,
Copernicus for his stupid theories,
Einstein for his crazy formulas,
Russel for his unfaithful atheism,
Franklin for his disloyal independent theory.
Get a thousand excuses to show you are a coward,
but only one reason is needed to be a hero.
A coward? I prefer the word "practical" in this case. Why don't you go out there in front of national TV news for an interview to talk about how supportive you are of "Rape Games"? LOL
You'll just be laughed at and ridiculed. If anything, being supportive of this stuff will just worsen the problem, because then it gets brought to the attention of loud, vicious soccer moms everywhere.
Have fun being zerg-rushed by a bunch of crazy-eyed bitches after showing your support for this.
Einstein does not belong in that list.
Einstein was neglected for a phd twice because they thought his work on thermodynamics was stupid. People thought he had a learning disability or was even retarded when he was a kid.
People fought relativity quite a lot since nobody wanted to accept that maybe Newton was wrong.
You sound like quite some one ready to defend our right, how about you go defend loli stuff if you're as brave as you say? Don't forget loli are banned in Canada and I haven't heard yet any one raising to defend it.
I am really just a student.
What I can do now is forming a demonstration, a protest.
If I do not get enough people, I shall wait.
And my long term plan is to prove academically that these stuff are of necessary existence.
However, I only see comments saying that defending eroge are sick and shameful.
Well dont get confused that my life target is just defending eroge.
This is too little, however this has some relationship with very big topics, such like the nature and necessarity of censorship, why females tend to be less rational, etc.
Sickos of the world, UNITE!!!
I'm ready!
OH WAIT...
inb4 Captain Planet
Big deal.... I support children having sex with adults, and I haven't been labeled a 'sicko'.
In fact, most people after hearing my point of view, actually AGREE with me!
The fact is that until we stand up and shout, we are going to be like the homosexuals were until about 20 years ago: with no rights.
You know, they could have at least put up a fight. Hopefully there are plenty of loopholes to use for these companies. I personally dislike rape themed games, but this is seriously bullshit.
Fan-fucking-tastic.
Doesn't Japan have one of the lowest rates of rape per capita? I expect it will go up. Soon.
It's about 40x lower than Canada's and Australia's.
Yeah, but "Equality Now" says that is because rapes just aren't reported in Japan! So those 'low, low rates' don't mean anything!
Now, that is SHEER STUPIDITY that I said above, but unfortunately, that is what EN actually believes.
The fact is that most 'rapes' are more drunken sex or women pushing a man too much and then getting sex that they don't want. They have to start taking responsibility for that and realizing neither one of those things are rape, and get used to that fact.
Someone maybe should start playing "rape games" with real women?
That's much harder because you almost always end up with a bad end and you can't save before choices.
and they win..... how sad....
Now i would really love to Curb Stomp them and smash their face on a concrete floor.. Both those feminists and possibly the EOCS too, for being total pussies who let themselves easily stomp by those self-proclaimed protection idiots.
Enjoy your RL raep, b*tches.
*pssst* Your poor logic is showing.
Waiting for MikeeUSA to chime in 1...2....3
I wonder what's next on their list.
If these devs just change their titles and box art, and not content, for the purpose of seeming to comply, is a sly idea. Because will the feminists actually play the games to check the content?
No problem, the next step is ban all games. And after that all porn. >< Save us, MikeUSA!!!
@ Palmtop Tiger:
Ndeed, you took the words right out of my mind.
"Would they"? ~ the feminists ~ check (every) game to see of the makers complied? ~ I think not.
I would assume that the makers would stock (lets say) a few copies of the ~ "complied version" ~ just in case they were checked at random.
Rape (no matter what kind) is wrong and should be punished and dealt with severely.
~ and if someone took an idea/premise from a game, placing it as fact and reality, then that person has some serious fantasy/reality issues, which need to be looked at.
No one can really determine what goes on/in a persons mind and what triggers the emotion to cause such an act.
I feel that its the media, in addition, to those groups who like to control, place fear, and feed conspiracy ideas into people heads that need to be watched closely, because they are the ones doing the raping.
Few hundred years ago,
Thinking that "May the God not exist?"
OOOOps!
You are not supposed to have that in your mind.
You get killed.
What's now?
You are not supposed to have anything related to raping in your mind.
Your products get bannes and your hobbies get destroyed.
However, what is the first situation being considered?
NO FREEDOM OF SPEECH & EXTREME CENCORSHIP
And the second?
It's called "Civilized people's morality and FEMINISM"
OOOOps
One day I would get killed
Guess what? There's never been such a thing as freedom of speech. Not totally. Its all within reason that complies to the current society.
You know what? WE'RE OTAKUS!!!
WE HERE IN THE FIRST PLACE ONLY MEANS ONE THING:
FUCK SOCIETY!!!!
Actually, there has been such a thing as freedom of speech. I support pedosexuals and adults and children having sex, and the few boards that I have been banned from for that, once I bring up "First Amendment, bucking for a lawsuit!" they rescind 9 times out of 10 the banning in question.
There is such a thing as 'free speech', you just have to have the COJONES like I do to push for your free speech rights to be honored.
damn!! even they ban this kind of game... but out there got plenty of pornos vid wat!! then why just discrimination on gamers only.. do they do a research to prove most of rapes are actually play this kind of game??
why not teach them other useful technique how to escape from to being rape...
It also seems that people only know complaining.
Nothing detailed, nothing constructive, nothing effective, and nothing philosophical is being discussed.
Even this thread continues with a million replies, nothing will be changed.
It's the internet, plus these people are otakus and anons. What could you expect?
This is kinda like banning games like Grand Theft Auto or other violent games.... Just making it more likely for these kind of crimes to happen in real life, instead of the possible threats aiming their 'lusts' at the games.
Did you seriously just make the jump from "people who can't play rape games will go rape" to "people who can't play GTA will carjack"?
... Did you -really-?
Hey, fact is, that might actually be true. It has been postulated that people who play GTA and other 'socially-negative' games are actually MORE likely to be law-abiding than other people are.
No it's not true. People who play agressive games are lessly agressive in real life. This is proven by tests.
@TomCatFort
It has been "proven" by non-peer reviewed unscientific tests run by people with agendas.
Legitimate tests, which use accepted scientific methods - and publish all their data and findings for peers to review (and dispute), have so far been inconclusive at best.
No more rape eroge? I can see a dark age coming for humanity.
Oh fuck!!!!
/wrist
inb4 mass suicide
Biatches!!! How dare they!!!!!
Now they'll ruin the Internet!!!!!
there still going to be made no mater what. I wonder if they'll come out with a list of banned games. I wonder if Koihime Musou, School Days ,and Fate/Hollow Ataraxia and any ather Fates are going to banned.
So PLEASE ban my Sid Meier's Civilization for genocide and Need For Speed series for promoting dangerous behaviour, and The Sims for promoting adultery...
...and then ALL video games - for violence, of course.
*sigh*
Oh noes we are all doomed.
armageddon is coming..
All started because someone felt so offended by Rapelay he/she/it wanted to ban it...
Im Annonymous :D so i ll confess i played Rapelay just cus of the boobies, and i thougt it would get consensual at the end... but felt disgusted and turned off after seeing the girls cry and stuff.... but thats all, i didnt trolled the game or anything, just uninstalled it.
I only hope this ban doesnt gets too far :/
Your resistance only makes my penis really harder!
Really harden! Fucking Illusion, so retarded.
They'll ban mini-skirts next. And soon enough you'll see only girls in monk-like suits in games. How about burqa too? Or maybe they should be looking like 3d cubes just to be sure no one can see that it's actually a girl. If you see a girl you obviosly can think something dirty and that's unacceptable.
this is so retarded on so many levels it's not even funny, so... games like CSS,CoD4 L4D and countless other games that encourage killing others are fine, but rape games arn't for some reason, GTA got a slap on the wrist by being labled from 13+ or whatever to a M 18+ rating and where as GTA has been proven to encourage violence IRL.
Maybe it has something to do more with being able to chase down a woman and rape her having more convenience then walking in to a bank with a knife and stab a few people and rob the place.
The dominant global culture legitimizes violence, but not open sexuality. That's why "murder simulators" are okay.
Heh, this reminds of the "Hot Coffee" mod for GTA. Made me lol, heartless murder, killing, grand theft auto-ing, etc are all fine, and then you come to the part with CONSENSUAL sex, and guess what? Everyone riots about it. It really baffles the mind...
You dont have to support loli/rape eroge, but you do have to support the freedom in which to tell these sordid tales of fiction. That is all they are, sordid tales of fiction.
Censorship is the bastion of people who have nothing better to do then make up their own rules and force them on those they could care less about.
Hey, maybe Japan will actually adopt English this time instead of just talking about it!
So....is the word "genocide" starting pop up in anybody's head right now?? Like...a genocide aimed towards a particular group of women?
thats an amazing pic of Roberta.......OMG PLEASE HAVE HER BE IN THE OTHER ROOM! *turns around* DAMN not her :(
Oh well... we should ban feminists...
Wow.....Hentai, Art, and Porn just took a big hit.
To ban something that is simulated without specific language, will spread into other media form of "rape".
As much as i respect feminists, there are extremes to any opinion and stance, and it will obviously have HUGE effects, because these poeople arent using facts anymore, they're not protecting anyone,
Something being banned because a group "doesn't like it" is the most obviously case of a slippery slope.
I noticed they have a youtube featured on their website. I say we start voicing our hate for Equality Now starting with that vid, and work or way up from there -_-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RdaNXCXXHUw
I see there are already many rage comments there. lol
I like how every time someone posts the equalitynowyt YouTube channel, they neglect to direct people to the only EN YouTube video that has over 100,000 views (where what you write would actually be viewed by people):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cYaczoJMRhs&feature=related
equalitynowyt was probably just some random YouTube channel a guy made to redirect drama/comments from where it could actually be seen.
It had less than 100 views when all this eroge ban crap began weeks ago.
copypasta from the forums
Sounds like the easiest ban on Earth to work around; our eroge will continue to thrive in some form. I am completely not worried about this situation at all, even if it means we only get download only doujin style releases from now on. This will be about as successful as their incest ban I predict.
Just remember fellas - this girl is on your side. I feel your pain.
Passive resistance....
This does not make any damage in this battle.
When you fight a BOSS in a RPG with only dodging,
you will finally be killed because the BOSS does not stop attacking you.
And in this case all eroge will disappear.
Touhou game bosses run on timers so only dodging wins :w
I'm talking seriously, and
I'm ignoring the special cases.
Of course you are. Your pores are permeating with seriousness. Your acne is squirting out seriousness. I salute you, oh mr. serious video game logic man.
"Where there's a will there's a way"
And we all obviously have the will. The game makers and the doujin scene and such shall continue to thrive. As long as there is a need to fap, we shall create material for it.
Only when you believe you are beaten do you go down. I know I won't give up the fight, not even if they martyr me for it. And you must be willing to fight as well or we'll get nowhere.
We must stand tall as a group and defend our eroge!
...god this sounds like the worst motivational speech ever
"As long as there is a need to fap, we shall create material for it."
This belongs on a "Rules of IRL" list or something.
Rule #1: If there is a need to fap, we shall create material for it.
Now I am curious at what you are planning to do to "believe you are not beaten" and "defend your games".
We continue to support the makers when they change venues, we speak out openly against acts like this and see what we can do to possibly get our voices heard and get this checked and maybe overturned, and maybe even learn how to make our own.
>support the makers
is, simply buying the products?
>speak out openly
is, what, are you a member of a NGO or something?
>check to make your own
ok you mean western-styled eroge?
sorry I cannot support this...
You see my ID as canada, but I am asian and only live in canada
I really know what difference is between asian p0rn and western ones
You should try playing Katawa Shoujo demo, i think its pretty good, and seems that every1 is talking here that all rape will deseace. But i though that it was only ban from 1 group. This means if big companys ban all rape visual novels, then small ones specializing for only rape eroge will show up. This could even make rape eroge even interesting and higher quality
I don't think so. Eroge companies join the EOCS for a reason. It's precisely because of cases like these. The whole premise of the EOCS is to take all the flak should one company ever be attacked for one of their games. If their game has been rated by the EOCS, they can just point fingers and think of ways to avoid the criticism next time. Japanese developers are spineless wimps. No company, not a single one, will go doujin to publish risqué games. It just won't happen.
^
Sir, your analysis would indeed be correct. However I like to think there is still hope among all this. Besides EOCS there is also CSA, even though they are not much different. As far as I remember, one of them allow uncensored butt hole but disallow incest and loli, and vice versa. Since this ban is only effective on EOCS members. I am guessing CSA might see a rise in memberships in the future, assuming CSA doesn't follow in EOCS's footsteps.
- Simon Cowell of Eroge
If I made any eroge, it wouldn't be western style at all; it would definitely be within the spirit of Japanese ones.
Well, you are a girl that loves girls just like us guys do, and knowing how much you like Queen's Blade fan service your support was expected. ^^
I wonder wy my replies never goes where they were supposed to be... ¬¬
In this world we live in, which is the worst crime?
1. Leaving a dog in a hot car?
2. bank robbery?
3. Murder?
4. Assault?
More than likely it will be the #1 - Dog in hot car!
Because it HAS been proven that people will defend, Protect, and support a animal (first) verses a human.
guy with the dog in the car isn't even getting charged for it's death, lulz
in all seriousness everyone would flag 3 if you gave them a list like that
I will disagree with that...
People have been charged with a death of a dog in a hot car... it depends on the State I guess..
I was just making an example of how people view things... and what people see as more important.
Simple list as to not make it too complicated.
Sorry, I pick #3 too.
"People have been charged with a death of a dog in a hot car… it depends on the State I guess.."
People've been charged with all four of the things on that list, because they're all wrong. Animal abuse is wrong, but it's not -more- wrong than killing someone.
If you seriously think that most people would say the death of a dog in a hot car is more morally reprehensible than killing another human being, maybe you're hanging around the wrong folks ._.
@Kokopure
I respect your views and all points made.
Yes, ALL on the list are wrong and - yes - many have been charged with the crime.
However, I *have* had (many) a heated discussion over this...
That (some) think that a Hot Dog (no pun intended) is more important than a human.
and as you stated, all on the list are cruel and are punishable.
As far as I hanging around the wrong type of people.
No, I have lived a long time and have seen the changes in society since I have been around, both the good and bad.
Unfortunately, in my field of work before I retired, I have seen the worst that mankind can dish out, and its amazing how it has changed throughout the years.
oh now the japanese otakus are going to hate us
No, my Anon friend... they'll hate the interfering assholes who coincidentally share the same space on this rock we live on. I'm sure some Japanese counterparts know and understand that even WE are beset as much as they are by all this bullshit.
The internet is gonna avenge the banned games, and oh god, its gonna be painful. >:D
As a single bachelor who intends on staying that way as well as accumulating wealth, I'm free to live in the country of my choice. If it gets too oppressive here in Japan, I'll just take myself, my business and my money with me to a country that has more freedom.
A loss for Japan.
When tourism starts dropping they'll only have themselves to blame.
I dont think tourism is gonna stop because eroge games are getting ban - i went to japan 2 times and it sure wasnt for a eroge game. Personally - went to meet a penpal who introduce me to some ladies who i took to my hotel and turned them out :p i just go for the japanese women
This only means that EOCS will not certify any games with such content. I wouldn't be surprised that some manufactures will go over to the other group (I forget it's name at this time) or go the DLsite route to release such games.
While I don't support such games, I have no issues with those who do. I really feel that this whole situation stinks of the Thought Police from Orwell's 1984 . . .
Kind of off topic, but where's that picture from?
Rei Hiroe
I'm torn on this, on one hand I think all rapists should have their dicks ripped off, shoved up their asses then deep enough down their throats to kill them and all those who like to look at rape material should be kicked in the balls repeatedly for about 48 hrs.
However, I'm afraid how far this may go. First rape, then fetish, then all hentai, then echi until we are left with a bunch of american hacked up pokemon clones.
Well at least we may see more non-rape hentai/doujin by the skilled artists that draw that.
>>I’m torn on this, on one hand I think all rapists should have their dicks ripped off, shoved up their asses then deep enough down their throats to kill them and all those who like to look at rape material should be kicked in the balls repeatedly for about 48 hrs.
That's ridiculous. You advocate (quite disgusting) murder for rape? Get some fucking perspective you dumbass guro-freak.
What are you, American?
And all that can be disregarded by just saying fuck you. So fuck you.
Good coz I never really like rape themed games, doujins or hentai.
Oh the ignorance...
A member of Equality Now I must presume...
"Objections start with the opposition and minor parties and soon the ruling party jumps onto the bandwagon."
It's always like that. Opposition parties bash on anything on the spur of the moment to get attention. If the cause gets popular and taken by the media (whether it has a real effect on society or not), the ruling party gives in and accepts, whether it's stupid or not, to keep the satisfaction rating up for the next election.
If only people in general were more informed and looked into the depth of things instead of just judging a situation by looking at headlines, that wouldn't happen...
whoa that roberta pic is awesome
savin it
can we get together to ban romantic comedies
cause honestly everytime im forced to watch one it feels like the movie is raping my mind
can we also banned extremely overweight women wearing skimpy outfits cause that is raping my eyes
lets get everything banned ban cars cause they might lead to death eventually maybe
No, you can only ban things feminists or minority groups dislike.
C'mon people. We should fight fire with fire. If water represents passiveness then screw fighting with that shit. They like spamming with mail until the otherside waves the white flag, I say we do the same to thing to them.
I figure since they have that youtube vid embedded on their site, if they see that it has at least 20 000 views or so with as much negative remarks about the stupid shit they pulling, we just win in general.
This threat is worse than scientology, so let's get cracking.
We can voice our hate here until some godly anon organizes the masses for an orchestrated assault.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RdaNXCXXHUw
people start flaging
Done.
equalitynowyt was probably just some random YouTube channel EN made to redirect drama/comments from where it could actually be seen.
It had less than 100 views when all this eroge ban crap began weeks ago.
-----
I like how every time someone posts the equalitynowyt YouTube channel, they neglect to direct people to the only EN YouTube video that has over 100,000 views (where what you write would actually be viewed by people):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cYaczoJMRhs&feature=related
Done.
flaging video, account, and their souls!
Done...
Rated five stars and favorited ;3
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Okay, okay, you've made your point, Sankaku. Now get the hell back to planning YouPornTube or whatever else it is you do besides getting your kicks berating an organization that's -doing something-.
Before you complain about how they're 'misusing donation money' and 'not targeting the real problem', take a moment to realize that you're doing even less than that. High and Mighty, you are definitely not."
Fail.
Hmm, still the usual shallow trolling and attention seeking I see. You haven't yet learned empathy for others, it's still just ego, ego, ego.
Failed the last few thread arguments (here, and here), so now you just resort to this sort of impish derision.
I assume you have a life off the internet, go do that. Unless you really are as disturbed as the role you're assuming here, laughing in the home of your self-proclaimed enemies.
Bigots and bullies, there really is no reasoning with brains as deeply entrenched in hatred and spite that they actually get a thrill out of making fun of their opponents.
Are you sure you don't actually play rape games in your pass time?
All this trolling would seem to suggest it's in your nature...
Ooh, bold.
"Failed the last few thread arguments" <--- from your point of view.
"laughing in the home of your self-proclaimed enemies." <--- In the last thread you said -you- had a life outside, too. You might notice that all -my- responses come in the dead of night, which is, you know, when I'm -not- living my life. So if this is your home, then, well, the html is just lovely, I really must find out who does the wallpaper.
(And I never said anyone here was my personal enemy. So if you could find a quote from me where I, myself, proclaim these posters as my enemies, that would just be fantastic.)
And, please, I do not troll you. I have never trolled you. I troll people in need of a good trolling. You make points! Random youtube commenters make very few. I do not get a thrill making fun of my opponents, unless I view said 'opponent' as unworthy of being worth my serious attention. You are not such an opponent.
Yes, I'm sure I don't play rape games in my spare time, because playing rape games whilst lobbying for their illegality is beyond ridiculous. I also don't think trolling and rape-fetish go hand-in-hand as personal traits.
However, you're absolutely right: I absolutely and unabashedly seek attention. I have a point to make, so attention is actually beneficial to me, strange as that is.
And you rarely fail to respond to one of my posts :3 So my thanks to you for allowing me to clarify some of my points as needing.
i believe if something as surreal as a video game (in this instance) or lolicon art or raep manga or any of that stuff is incitement enough to the purveyor that they then go out and recreate such phenomena, then they can't have really been in a fit mental state anyway... After all, i read Saiyuki and it doesn't make me go out and eat Buddhists or throw MahJong tiles at people.
i personally love simulated rape porn and rape hentai. it just really turns me on. however i have no desire to ever do that to real person. i love and respect women way to much to ever do that.
though saying rape turns me on and i respect women would probly cause a feminist to have a seizure.
unless they are going to come and confiscate all the rape material out there in reality and on the internet, this whole thing is fail.
This can't be good for their economy.
now id ever wonder what companies are under EOCS anyway looking back this is not really going to work unless EOCS has those companies that now has a bandwagon so yeah more likely the companies i have been looking for should still be alive
SURE IS CONSERVATIVE FEMALE IN HERE
Fuck off
Ah, it will be lifted at some point or another, all simply due to: Demand and profits; that is if there were any significant to begin with, of course.
Well japan still won't face an increase in crime rate becouse of this,only rape games are banned and not other forms of hentai and they have enough to satisfy many.
Anyway why don't i hear anyone in japan actualy protecting their hentai,it's not like the population is so small with hentai and freedom speech interest.
plus question how much they are banned,doujin games can't be controlled by the eocs i think
Rape will go up. With out the games to enjoy people will have to go for the real thing.
This is just a self-implemented ban. Hopefully the industry can lay low until this blows over (and I hope that happens), instead of being legally banned. We'l just have to see how far this goes.
This is so shitty, considering this is all on the fault of Amazon.uk for allowing some idiot to sell adult content over their site.
Unfortunately this victory for the nasty whores means that they will start to move in on other things too fueled by their victory. When will the oppression end?
Amazon sells "American Psycho", a book that children are banned from buying here in my country. They also sell Nabokov's "Lolita", Henry Miller's catalog and the Marquis de Sade as well. All these could be easily purchased by a child online.
If they ban rape, crazy otakus will actually go out on the street and rape people. Seriously. If they can buy 898 items of the same sort because it's relevant to their interests, then they'll probably do this as well.
Seriously, I may not like those games but whatever keeps them in the house fapping and away from kids/women shouldn't be banned...
found in the Equality Now site:
http://www.equalitynow.org/english/actions/action_3301s_en.html
about the last reactions...
Lol, they don't consider that sexual harassment ever occurs to men. It's a crime against women. Christ.
Arguing with them is almost pointless since they side with their "feelings".
A message to all the feminazis out there: I'm sorry. Statistics don't give a shit about your feelings. Japan has less rape than your own countries which you've already managed to screw up beyond repair.
I'll only believe that equality has been achieved when half of all the homeless, half of all the garbage workers, half of all the toilet cleaners, half of all the lawn mowers and half of all the window washers are women.
Time for you to stand up and fight for equality.
It's not that they wanna be equal, they wanna be paid the same as a man but treated like a woman.
Wrong, they wanna get paid more than a man and be treated like queens.
I bet you that this is how the background for the story of Toshokan Sensou really started. For some reason I'm not surprised that they caved though.
They must be really happy!
They use rape games to make the local government bow in but it only starts with that. Next is to use childporn to put a ban on internet.
All they have in mind is to get the means of shutting down the flow free information.
http://www.japanator.com/elephant/post.phtml?pk=10056
Supposedly EOCS has already started changing things such as the titles of their new games and the cover box. Which could be considered smart, I doubt the Femenazi's actually play the games to see the content.
so true
they hate the games and only are bitching about the names or pictures that show rape happening
so just repackage, dont put the word rape in the game's advertisements then they would never know
well till people make a big deal out of it and then they somehow get there attention cause all they have is time since they cant solve anything that matters
All Men should unite and urge the ban of
Baby showers - Sounds like a conspiracy/cult to me and offends me potential baby eating involved..
Purses - Can horde illegal drugs and weapons
Nipple piercing - Its a potential weapon to choke men during sex
Lingerie - Has the ability to turn into a weapon and used to choke men to death
Bra - Same as above
Makeup - Hides women ugliness and lieing is a crime.
Titties - using these to get what they want is a crime. EQUALITY NOW!
Dildos - Potential weapons to choke/endanger mankind.
Crying in anything - A murderous intention and should not be allowed.
Babies - Men can't have em so women shouldn't too EQUALITY PLEASE, we should only be cloning
Dollhouses - Lets them gain ideas on how to destroy a family/house what not.
And anything else women like.
Hell lets ban imagination all together.
This is ridiculous! Japan has fallen twenty points on my scale of awesomeness now. How can something like this happen in a non-communist country?
It already had before this. Multiple times.
Okay, I guess I should have worded that better: Rape is a big part of otaku porn culture and has been considered legal for years. (though there have been stuff like "banning" loli games...) For a country that isn't completely controlled by the government (like China; no offense), I find this sickening that the game developers don't do anything when they (should) have the right.
Personally, unless ALL rape is banned, this won't affect me much, as the only rape in (most) of my eroge is a small part of the game. However, this isn't fair to those that enjoy games like RapeLay and want to be someone else in a fantasy world. It is just one step closer to other forms of media getting censored.
Oh noes. I watched the whole series of dragon ballz. Now I think I'll go powerup and blow up cities by lifting my index and middle fingers together.
I also played lots of h-game with mature themes like rape and loli. After many years of playing that stuff lets look at my rapage achievements board. Zero what how can this be?!?!?!
Seriously I watched more baby blue tv shows on regular cable that have more violence towards woman + rape + psychotic themes Raws in English compare to childish japanese themes that are so unrealistic.. Like male harem, etc.
This is Madness.
It's kind of an acquiescing, but not really.
If it goes like it says within the article about loli and incest, it's not really going to change anything. If it gets out of hand to the point about revoking Japanese Constitutional rights then there's something to worry about.
The feminists are now one step closer to world domniation.
And people are still emphasizing "Lady first".
Haha,
Then why not like this:
Go for war? Ladies first!
Go catching criminals? Ladies first!
Go programming? Ladies first!
Go high-tech? Ladies first!
???It becomes strange
When you make ladies go first to fight a war, they will blame you for unfair.
When you recuit police officers, you never get more women than men.
And, there is never more female programmers than male ones, and the same in robot-making or inventions.
Continue ladies first, and we human will never have a program similar to the Matrix, or no people can see a cyborg like Batou, or a robot like gundam or spaceships like Nadeshico.
We are doomed
"Go programming? Ladies first!
Go high-tech? Ladies first!"
At least these two points I can debunk using my own experience. Out of the ~500 information technology students at my university, almost half are female.
There are countries with mandatory military service for females, and police forces of most countries have many females among their ranks.
Your Nadesico example reeks of failed logic especially, considering the ship's captain...
Yes Yes Yes
Your personal experience can represent the whole world
Yes Yes Yes
It seems that you are thinking like a female:
Despite facts and statistics, only your feeling is the truth.
Some people will say that, well men are suitable to some jobs and female to the others.
Then, does fashion design matter a nation's fate?
How about fighting a war?
Does teaching(teachers) make the society more safe and stable?
How about policing?
the answer is?
Actually I simply see that the human world is built on science, but there are almost no notable female scientists(except Ms.Nightingale & Curie,etc)
The noble prize simply shows this clearly.
>almost no notable female scientists
Uh... not really. Way less than men, yes, but not "almost none."
The problem is that females were denied education until only recently (historically speaking). Of course there haven't been many noticeable female scientists. Today, our overall technological development doesn't allow for fundamental breakthroughs in science anymore, every scientific progress happens in small steps nowadays. So not only do we not have any noticeable female scientists today, we don't have noticeable scientists at all anymore.
Denied Yes,denied
In the past, ordinary people were denied to have political power.
Only those with money or a gang or mercs can eventually get a governer position, except you are of royal or noble families.
What did they do? Revolutions, coups and take-overs.
How about women being suppressed by men?
What have they done in more than 10,000 years of human history?
Hey CanadaMann, I'm just as pissed off about these femnazis as you are, but i dont really appreciate you tryin to bash the entirety of the female population. Especially when you clearly are an idiot.
good time to dl this stuff before we cant find them anymore
the feminists are just men disappointed with their lives so they spread faggotry like this ban for attention.
Massive FAIL.... die
aaahhh stupid fucks its just a game
it helps society by keeping those molesters and rapists at home
Grow a backbone already, Japan. Defend your own fucking consitituion. I'm pretty sure freedom of expression is somewhere in there.
Here we go with another 1984 bomb set off b/c of the evil feminist group [In]Equality Now. Welcome (back?) to socialism/facism (whatever you want to call it), Japan.
There's a high level of hypocrisy when it comes to games. Ultra-violence is fine (Manhunt, MadWorld), but similar levels of sexual violence isnt.
Thats to say that sexual violence and physical violence arent equitable. That sentiment is dangerous. It sets up an inequity between different kinds of violence. In the end, the freedom of speech is subverted (even though there are still plenty of books and porno movies about "fantasized rape"), while at the same time making a distinction on violence where there shouldnt be one.
Virtual violence should be fine in all medias, whether interactive, or not, not just physical violence. Id like to point out that a lot of practitioners of BDSM are usually completely socially well-adjusted healthy adults.
"Id like to point out that a lot of practitioners of BDSM are usually completely socially well-adjusted healthy adults."
Make that 99.9% of BDSM practitioners and I'll agree wholeheartedly with everything you said.
Another example u reminded me: many years ago the government tried to ban some war games cus of their violence, and at the same time, on the games's website there was advertise saying "Bored of games? get real action! Join the army NAO!"
Whats even worse, i SAW one of those advertise 3 years ago..... WTF?!
Cus killing people u dont know at all cus your country says so is okay?
How about rather than just posting comments on here, or on youtube, send a proper email to info@equalitynow.org?
Not a death threat or anything, but a well written rebuttal.
Or do what they did, send emails to Illusion and government officals saying you support freedom of speech and that these games should not be banned.
We should get some sample form letters like they have as well. I wrote an email to Equality Now, however it's probably not a good basis for a form letter...
Booo feminists.
Anon is too tired to think at the moment, but isn't this like banning a game on principle rather than an outright ban? Some games are advertized that way (Manhunt, Postal... etc)
I don't think much will change. Just like the fact that you have to censor stuff exists, but there's no actual definition of how much so a poor job would still legally be censored (very little blurring/black like that doesn't obscure everything).
wow... just... wow... i cant believe the delusional "feminists" won this one...
i swear, these "feminist" groups are as stupid as the super conservatives of the USA... instead of looking at their own society and problems... they decide to harass others for things they dont even understand... the same way that socialism is demonized... i swear, we need to do something about the retardation of society, its too bad that destroying such groups as Equality Now would be only a temporary solution, though it would be a benefit to society since they dont actually fight for true equality. through the power of knowledge and the complete banning of conservative religion, we can create a better world in the long run, unfortunately, the majority of humans are not smart enough nor have a strong enough will to venture into the unknown.
They didn't win. Japan caved in because they're a group from USA, a powerful country that kicked Japan's ass in the past and Japan usually bends over for the US.
Damn ancients. It's a GAME - a PC video game, for that matter. It's the person/rapist who must be punished, not the game.
If I'm not mistaken, most (if not all) perverts grew up in families with an outdated, close-minded POV on sexual intercourse
These feminist women are nothing more than those who didn't have a very good experience on their first time, hence they came to the conclusion that all women also do not experience a very good first time...
Fucking busy-body feminists with nothing better to do. Seriously, there is no fucking causation
between rape fiction and rape in real life. That's like saying we should ban GTA because it suggests criminal activity, promotes prostitution, and disobeying the law. This shit is retarded. I'm going to play Doom and shoot up my school now.
Fucking busy-body feminists with nothing better to do. Seriously, there is no fucking causation
between rape fiction and rape in real life. That's like saying we should ban GTA because it suggests criminal activity, promotes prostitution, and disobeying the law. This shit is retarded. I'm going to play Doom and shoot up my school now.
EOCS fuck you dam you women dam you
Another form of narrative and art buried by the censors… SHAME ON YOU JAPAN!!!
Eroge versus a vaguely-worded ban, eh? Sounds like we could have a Battle of the Status Quos on our hands.
Its obvious a bunch of moms and feminists some where had ALLOT of time on their hands.
Actually, since these "fictional" rape games are so bad - why don't we ban ALL rape related things all together?
Lets see... Lets pull all the movies to date with ANY rape scenes in them - anndddd.... Lets jail anyone that any women thinks is raping them with their eyes that might be giving them a weird look....
Yes, you can do this feminist groups out there... I know you can!
owned
If they can't give equality, they should go back to the kitchen.
VICTORY!VICTORY!VICTORY!VICTORY!VICTORY!VICTORY!VICTORY!VICTORY!
VICTORY!VICTORY!VICTORY!VICTORY!VICTORY!VICTORY!VICTORY!
LORD ENKI! GODDESS APHRODITE! VICTORY!VICTORY!VICTORY!
THANK YOU LORD! KEEP IT UP! WE NEED TO BAN ALL HENTAI WITH LOLIS! YOU HUMANS CAN DO FUCK ALL! GO JERK OFF TO PORN WITH 18 YEARS OLD ONES!
OBVIOUS TROLL IS OBVIOUS,
You can GTFO now...
FUCK YOU! WHO YOU CALLING A TROLL FUCKING HUMAN SHIT ASS STINKING BITCH! I AM GOD'S WORKER AND YOU CAN GO FUCK YOURSELF!
SO? FUCK YOU AND FUCK YOUR GOD YOU ASSHOLE!
Hey now, who let the -woman- in?
(I feel the need to point out that that was sarcasm.)
And gender classifications continue to be the basis of your trolls kokopuke. Both women and men can be against fictional sexual deviancy, that's cool with you. But only men can be the deviants?
Perhaps your subconscious is begining to feel guilty for all this sexual disparagement you're bathing in?
I'm sure you're still getting a thrill out of being on the "winning side" of all this infantile drama, but there must be some part of you still capable of feeling shame. I hope you listen to it one day.
Also, the OP troll here didn't even read the article. Rape games are still legally publishable in japan, just through other censorship organizations. This "victory" of yours is to lull your arrogant minds into the illusion you've actually accomplished something, while sexual deviancy still gets published where your focus isn't.
We use these tactics because they work on the sort of simple reactionist minds that began this prejudice campaign. Bigots aren't exactly the brightest creatures on earth...
Ah, sorry. My apologies for trolling.
... "This “victory” of yours is to lull your arrogant minds into the illusion you’ve actually accomplished something, while sexual deviancy still gets published where your focus isn’t."
...Yes, excuse me for trolling.
Anyway, I would hardly consider this a definitive 'victory' for either party. As you said, and I wholeheartedly expect, the rape-game scene will not disappear, merely go underground. In this sense, your side is the winner. In the other sense, it's no longer legal.
So no, I'm getting no big thrill out of this, infantile or otherwise.
And whoever said I can't feel shame? There are parts of me I'm ashamed of, and parts of me I don't flaunt. That sure as hell doesn't make my opinion any less valid, and I'm sure as hell not ashamed that I stood up for my belief that rape-games are not productive in the slightest and only hinder proper wiring of the human brain, just as you're not ashamed of your belief that this is -solely- a matter of free speech, and my position is the same as a book-burners, an overreaction to a threat that doesn't exist outside my own mind.
The problem is that you think you can win by belittling my stance until I crawl back into whatever hole I emerged from.
I'm told constantly "Why do you respond to that troll? They're not gonna change their view, you're just wasting your time. You're a moron. You should be focusing on persuading people you have a chance against." Now, if I may make the bold assumption that you are told similar things about confronting -me- about an issue I am quite obviously not going to change my mind about, it becomes pretty damn obvious that this is a matter of -opinion-, not uselessness or random acts of trolling on either of our parts. You are defending your position on this issue, as am I. You, however, are being an asshole about it, taking offense personally. I dare you to find something I said that can be taken as 'all men who play these games are rapists', or 'you personally are a rapist.'
And I'm sexist because there's a difference between women and men. One's sick of being shit on, and one's doing the shitting. If you don't think so, move to Africa. I'm sure everything's fine there.
Neither of us are morons, and neither of us are majorly or irreparably deluded. If you can't bring yourself to see -me- as a logical human being, that's entirely your own issue. But clearly, you are not Anonymous troll bait.
Alright, I'll keep biting, but this will be the last one for a while.
You seem to make it clear from your narrative you've suffered at the hands males in your past, or you wouldn't feel as if you're being shat upon by them.
I feel for you, many of us, male and female alike, have terrible memories of being victimized by some jerk with too much testosterone. Mind you, I also know what it's like to be psychologically victimized by jerks with too much control-obsessive estrogen too. EN and this banning drama are just a random iconic example of instincts being allowed too much influence, this time being doled out from a female majority.
But your personal experiences that have led you to feel females are being more oppressed than males has nothing to do with fiction. Your talk of Africa and our human ancestry of unbalanced tribal gender roles is something grounded to the real world. Is this distinction so difficult to make?
Both my sisters and brother are semi feminists as well, in the sense we don't want any niche to be discriminated against. That includes both females (like you), and fiction (like so many eroge).
I'm just curious if you understand that your response to feeling shat upon IRL by males, is to join some fanatic legions that are shitting back. Siding with these bans on speech/fiction, it's fighting fire with fire. Nobody wins. Everyone's becoming a victim.
It's like being the victim of a theft, and responding by becoming a theif, to "balance" things out...
-----
As I said previously:
"How can pro-censorship be a form of respect when it is intrinsically an aggressive stance made to ban both the art it is illegalizing, as well as cause undue suffering to the community it involves?
It is a 'first strike' counter measure against the peaceful speech of your opponents, equating it to simple bullying.
It is the very definition of disrespect."
-----
I respond to your posts because I have a vested interest in the psychology behind discrimination, as a researcher in AI, cognitive and neurological science, where I've decided to spend my energies in life. I want to ensure the evolution of AI escapes falling into the same pitfalls of waspish associativity that human prejudism stems from.
Bold-faced discrimination, basic racism and sexism, are much easier to understand. They follow relatively predictable hierarchical patterns.
But these recent topics of banning fiction, charging people with obscenity over drawings, and so forth... it is a much deeper form of discrimination, attacking thought itself, which the masses appear to feel is OK.
It's as if, in this politically correct atmosphere, and post witch trial era, people are looking for a new way for it to be OK to attack each other based on their differences. So they have come up with attacking ideas, and the people who have them, rather than physical traits (gender, colors, etc.). It is a burgeoning evolution in prejudism, and both sad and illuminating to watch as it matures.
Someone has to learn what's at the core of human nature to fall into these instinctual pitfalls. To learn the nature of why it occurs the way it does, and to come up with viable solutions that can counteract the evolutions of intolerance for years to come.
Swing and a miss. I've never been molested, sorry; my viewpoints are wholeheartedly from a logical standpoint. I'm not saying emotional decisions don't have their place, nor am I saying I don't make them. But this isn't one of them.
No, I say that women are shat on upon men because, frankly, they are.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/mar/12/eudy-simelane-corrective-rape-south-africa
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/nov/02/somalia-gender
http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/africa/03/04/darfur.rape/index.html?eref=rss_topstories#cnnSTCText
http://tinyurl.com/iraq-rape-slaying
It's called empathy. Rape disgusts me. Material that glorifies it and allows it to flourish as an erotic assistant towards sexual gratification, likewise, disgusts me. The fact that it is primarily consumed by a male audience, as the first two, disgusts me. And there is no place for it in civilized society.
So next time you jack off to a girl being raped, know that somewhere, that -is- happening.
Now to get to your actual points:
"It’s like being the victim of a theft, and responding by becoming a theif, to “balance” things out…"
Dunno about you, but I watched Robin Hood as a child.
In all seriousness, if you're taking some issue with the way EN is handling themselves, the best way to change their mind would be to offer to help them in a way that suits -both- your goals. AKA, offer to be a missionary to the Middle East to educate women about safe sex and rape, which -both- of you would agree is a cause worth pursuing.
Organizations are made up of individuals, after all.
In metaphore:
You're not going to stop the EN train from running over your precious games if you stand in its way. You -might- persuade the conductor to take an alternate route to where you feel the train is best headed, if you're on-board said train.
Because, as I feel from your post, you don't hate feminists. You hate their current actions, but not their over-arching goals. Thus, I'm sure you could find common ground.
"Someone has to learn what’s at the core of human nature to fall into these instinctual pitfalls."
If indeed that Someone is you, please program said androids not to take pleasure in forcing their will on an unwilling individual, nor fantasize about doing so.
If everyone's becoming a victim, you, as a male and the classic, stereotypical initial abuser (in tradition only), hold the key instrumental role of fixing the problem, rather than preserving the status quo.
Surely it seems as though the women are fighting back. If you'd prefer there to be no fighting at all, then reign in your end. If rape were not such a real and ever-present problem, there would be little reason to ban games glorifying it.
There would be no interest in stopping the problem, because the problem would already be gone.
TL;DR version:
Stop the rape, and the rape-games will be a nonissue. The solution is ultimately in the hands of your gender, not mine.
@Kokosaur
All this attention you're giving "rape" as the only important issue here is unbalanced.
Frankly, the concern of an unmitigated growth in thought-policing is far worse than rape. I'll donate to the least-appreciated, most important causes, thank you much.
"Swing and a miss. I’ve never been molested, sorry; my viewpoints are wholeheartedly from a logical standpoint."?
Actually I'd say it's a solid hit right on the mark, as I never mentioned molestation. You do feel victimized, victimized by gender roles (the "caveman bash head, have mate" kind). That seems to be the very core of your entire argument. Males who don't like aggressive sexual inclinations are in the very same position, btw.
"It’s called empathy. Rape disgusts me. Material that glorifies it and allows it to flourish as an erotic assistant towards sexual gratification, likewise, disgusts me. The fact that it is primarily consumed by a male audience, as the first two, disgusts me. And there is no place for it in civilized society."
It's actually called "selective ego-centric empathy", since you're only being empathetic to the group which is the most like you, the group whose well-being most affects you IRL.
It's also still called bullying, which you selectively choose not to address whenever it comes up. Not that you could address it, without engaging in a little humility yourself, so I suppose that can't be helped.
"Stop the rape, and the rape-games will be a nonissue."
Cold-hearted, planned rape comes from mental problems no one can solve, and have nothing to do with sexuality. Sadists exist everywhere, and I'm sorry I can't do a damn thing to stop them from being born with brains like that. But I don't take out my feelings of being unable to stop sadism by harassing video game developers.
Hot-headed rape that someone commits comes from sexual frustration. Rape fantasies exist to channel someone's desire to release their sexual frustration in the privacy of their own home.
They are the perfect solution to mitigate rape. Do I need to cite Japan's diminutive rape statistics for you? Surely you've seen them by now? The number of times Japan's lower rape rate has been cited is becoming incredibly redundant. Almost as redundant as its opposition.
If you choose to band-wagon along with this fiction-intolerance campaign, realize your efforts are decidedly pro-rape. And that I'm doing a better job battling rape than you are by helping to maintain a peaceful outlet for those who need it.
BTW, no, I've never played a rape game myself. The desire to rape stems from a desire to aggressively control others. I'm not as interested in bothering others as groups like EN and pro-censorship fiends.
You write that you find rape and the very idea of it disgusting, but you're engaging in "thought rape", which I find just as disturbing as the real thing.
"The solution is ultimately in the hands of your gender, not mine."
You've admitted you know that gender roles exist, that they are part of our cultural/ancestral heritage, in our brain-wiring.
Knowing this, you continue to want to take away the only peaceful outlet these instincts can have, in fiction... I just don't know how to respond to this. It's definitely not a valid logical argument to make.
If your kitchen sink starts blowing water out of it, do you plug up the faucet head as if that would solve the problem?! It would cause the pipes to explode from the pressure!
Banning fiction is no different. You are causing undue pressure by attacking the problem from the wrong area. You are making the problem MUCH worse.
*sigh* Look, I can't help you think more logically. Study Physics or something. If energy is welling up someplace, it needs an outlet. Please learn with your time, rather than troll like this.
"If rape were not such a real and ever-present problem, there would be little reason to ban games glorifying it. There would be no interest in stopping the problem, because the problem would already be gone."
Here's the worst flaw in your argument. Rape is not the kind of problem that can ever be totally removed.
Its sexual aspect is a vestigial instinct from the past. Its sadistic aspect is likewise impossible to solve.
Why don't we "completely eliminate hunger and poverty" as well?
Answer: BECAUSE THAT'S IMPOSSIBLE. We can, however, work to reduce it.
-----
You clearly have a mission "stop rape" in mind, and refuse to settle for "provide an outlet to reduce rape". You're an idealist, not a pragmatist ("the philosophy of considering practical consequences and real effects to be vital components of meaning and truth').
I'm wiping my hands of this. Idealists can only learn from themselves, as they color whatever objective points they hear to fit into their subjective goals.
Perhaps given another 10 years you will look back on this and realize where your approach was flawed, lacking both objectivity and compassion for the niche that "disgusts" you.
So let's start out, then.
"Actually I’d say it’s a solid hit right on the mark, as I never mentioned molestation. You do feel victimized, victimized by gender roles"
....now, what the fuck. Are you seriously trying to tell me what I went through in my own life?
You never mentioned molestation specifically. You said "suffered at the hands of men", which I took to mean you assumed I'd been molested or raped. So, no, your mark is -way- off, and you're an asshole for presuming you know more about my life and decision-making process than I do.
"It’s also still called bullying, which you selectively choose not to address whenever it comes up. Not that you could address it, without engaging in a little humility yourself, so I suppose that can’t be helped."
Um. The last few posts I've made have been quite attentive to how both of us have good points to make and neither of us are complete morons, and that there are indeed two sides to this issue. If you keep accusing me groundlessly of bullying you, I may have to revise that position, which would be a shame.
I 'selectively choose not to address' the bullying, because it's being made up, and I'd rather focus on the -actual- points being made.
As for “selective ego-centric empathy”... If that's what it's called, I'll take it over whatever fancy term you have for the lack of empathy you're exhibiting.
"Do I need to cite Japan’s diminutive rape statistics for you? "
No. You need to provide evidence that the cause of the minuscule rape statistics is the prevalence of rape-games.
Correlation does not imply Causation.
-And it never will-.
The reason it's redundant is because idiot anonymice resort to that factoid when they don't have a -real- point to make.
"You write that you find rape and the very idea of it disgusting, but you’re engaging in “thought rape”, which I find just as disturbing as the real thing."
That's just so mislead that it's... honestly, I don't know what to do with that. 'Thought Rape' is not only made-up and inapplicable in this situation (-fantasizing- about rape is not outlawed), but to compare it to something that's used as a tool of suppression, dominance and terror against woman the world over is... ignorant, selfish, and/or malicious. Pick any or all of those.
"You’ve admitted you know that gender roles exist, that they are part of our cultural/ancestral heritage, in our brain-wiring.
Knowing this, you continue to want to take away the only peaceful outlet these instincts can have, in fiction… I just don’t know how to respond to this. It’s definitely not a valid logical argument to make."
Please, for the love of god, tell me I read that wrong. Because it -seems- as though you're taking 'gender roles' to mean 'men rape, women are raped'. Is it an intrinsically male instinct to Rape? I -highly- doubt that it is wired into the minds of males to rape as 'ancestral heritage'.
Anyway, your entire argument above has several very gaping weaknesses.
One. It relies entirely on the fact that rape-games are the only thing preventing the players from engaging in rape resulting from sexual frustration, which is not only a depressing thing to think, but is also something you have no evidence for. I repeat, Correlation does not imply Causation.
Secondly. You have one way to prove yourself right, and that is by finding yourself some statistics showing that the rape-games -do cause- a decrease in rape. However, there is a -much- easier way to prove you wrong.
It's called waiting.
In a year or three, if rape rates -don't- skyrocket, what will your response be?
"Banning fiction is no different. You are causing undue pressure by attacking the problem from the wrong area. You are making the problem MUCH worse."
You mean 'will have made', assuming you are right, which obviously I do not.
As your final point, you label me an idealist.
To which I reply, damn-fucking-right I'm an idealist.
And I think I may actually be starting to realize why you seem incapable of treating me as anything but an irrational troll, whereas I have no problem treating you like a flesh-and-blood opponent.
Your point is that freedom of speech/expression is an undeniable right, that must be protected lest we dissolve into thought-policing and oppression of minority views.
My point is that while freedom of speech/expression is important, it must be limited in cases where the speech/expression encourages violence against an oppressed or culturally vulnerable group.
In my opinion, my point is more important because I feel the safety of human beings is more important than providing jack-off material to horny Japanese people.
(I do this while conceding that your point is well-founded.)
In -your- opinion, your point is more important than my point because -my point does not exist-. It's something I made up, am confused about, or are otherwise incapable of understanding fully.
Thus, your only recourse is to pretend that I'm a moron. Even when you know I'm not.
Ultimately, it doesn't seem to matter 'who makes a better point'. I think my point better because I believe it overrides your point. You think your point is better because -I don't have one-.
It's therefore impossible to act as though we're on equal footing.
I'm afraid I'll have to see if you've really wiped your hands with this tomorrow - my bed beckons.
Sleep tight.
Kokopure, please correct me if I'm wrong: the reason behind your desire to ban rape games is that the theme they focus on is morally wrong, and because real people are raped every day, so people shouldn't play games about it?
"And there is no place for it in civilized society."
You acknowledged yourself that there are women enjoying these games. Let's put aside for now how common this is. Do you consider them uncivilized? The desire to be tied up, you said yourself that nothing is wrong with that, is ultimately about giving up control and being dominated. Not all women who like BDSM might enjoy sex while in bondage, but many (if not most) do. If you consider this particular target audience socially well-adjusted, healthy contributors to civilized society, then by extension those games do have a valid reason to exist in civilized society (namely, to entertain them). Let's say all men who get off on them are sick fucks, rapists and misogynists, they rightfully disgust you and letting them consume these games is morally problematic at the very least. That still leaves that small number of women who can easily justify their enjoyment of those games. It's called a niche market.
I'm not trying to justify rape games using women as a shield, I just used this particular example hoping that you might be able to relate to it more.
Saying simulating rape in games has no place in society is a bit hypocritical when at the same time thousands of consenting adults live out this fantasy every day. Isn't simulating rape with real people even worse than computer games? Or are you going to argue that females have the right to indulge in those fantasies, but males do not because males thinking about rape is uncivilized?
I'm not used to making moral arguments, and it's a bit hard for me to put into words what I'm trying to say here, but I hope you can see where I'm coming from. (no pun intended, really)
"I’m afraid I’ll have to see if you’ve really wiped your hands with this tomorrow - my bed beckons."
When I read the things you write, it makes it very difficult for me to let the thread die off with the last points it makes being so apathetic to the community they are effectively defecating on.
...and you’re an asshole for presuming you know more about my life and decision-making process than I do.
I think your writing says an awful lot about you as a person. None of it very good, as this example shows. I said you felt victimized by gender roles, I wasn't getting inside your head putting words in your mouth. Here is another classic example of an idealist that re-interprets every objective element in their environment to suit their ego. It's like a machine Objective[input]-->Subjective[output]. I absolutely never once cared enough about your life to want to know anything about it. Bigots do not make good friends.
"My point is that while freedom of speech/expression is important, it must be limited in cases where the speech/expression encourages violence against an oppressed or culturally vulnerable group."
Of course if someone says "go out and rape" or "you must worship this god by blowing buildings up", OF COURSE that's speech that is actively encouraging violence and needs to be watched closely.
But they are addressing the listeners, petitioning them directly to do specific things, which makes what they are doing NON-FICTION.
That is very real propaganda, with no fictional elements.
No form of fiction is that kind of speech. NOWHERE in any japanese eroge would they say something like "well, that was fun wasn't it? Now go out into the real world and start doing this".
Is this your great argument that's supposed to deflate everything I've brought up to this point?
That fictional works are vehicles that encourage their viewers to act out what they read/watch?
Then I do have something to cite for you. There is legal precedant that visual media is a vehicle for our protected speech.
This is covered by a Supreme Court decision allowing motion pictures to be anti-religious:
...The Legion of Decency called the movie "a sacrilegious and blasphemous mockery of Christian religious truth."
The case was appealed by film distributor Joseph Burstyn, giving the Supreme Court the opportunity to weigh in.
"It cannot be doubted that motion pictures are a significant medium for the communication of ideas," wrote Justice Tom Campbell Clark in the majority opinion. "They may affect public attitudes and behavior in a variety of ways, ranging from direct espousal of a political or social doctrine to the subtle shaping of thought which characterizes all artistic expression."
The Court concluded that movies are an important vehicle for public opinion despite “the fact that they are designed to entertain as well as inform.” Quoting its 1948 opinion in Winters v. New York, the Court noted “the line between the informing and the entertaining is too elusive for the protection of that basic right (a free press). Everyone is familiar with instances of propaganda through fiction. What is one man’s amusement teaches another’s doctrine.”
"Quoting its 1948 opinion in Winters v. New York, the Court noted “the line between the informing and the entertaining is too elusive for the protection of that basic right (a free press)."
...
Clark also noted public concerns that movies may “possess a greater capacity for evil, particularly among the youth of the community,” but said this could not justify private restraint. He did not rule out some form of community control in order to protect young people.
With this ruling, the Supreme Court put American movies on the same footing as books and newspapers. It wiped out the system of prior restraint that had governed the film industry for decades.
--Source [http://www.firstamendmentcenter.org//speech/arts/overview.aspx?topic=arts_overview&SearchString=obscenity]
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I want all peaceful niches to be allowed their happiness.
You cannot call yourself a tolerant, empathetic human being if you do not wish for all peaceful, victimless niches their happiness.
I'm not arguing opinions. Every point I've made fully accounted for 360 degrees of peaceful subjective opinions. Pro-censorship is not a peaceful subjective opinion.
I'm defending the people whose art and community you will continue choosing to defile. You are the aggressor. You are raping what they love enough to create and enjoy together. You are choosing the path of the predator here, it's on your hands. That is all this comes down to.
Yes, I agree. Let's stop rape! And let's also stop false rape allegations! So many innocent men are being rammed up the ass in jail because of some lying bitch.
http://www.angryharry.com/esMostRapeAllegationsAreFalse.htm
I have to agree with LunarSD here; your words are filled with nothing but anger and hate and a very large "holier-than-thou" attitude, flaunting your now overblown ego at 'victory' at us like the sore winners you are. (It's not just the LOSERS who can act sore. A lot of us here are very articulate as you can plainly see.) You're coming off as extremely argumentative and putting us down without letting us get a word in edgewise here.
Can we talk?
Remember when America completely banned alcohol, even going so far as to make it an amendment, only to have it completely backfire because of extreme underground movements and the fact that hindsight hit them like a brick shithouse and they realized how fucking stupid it was to begin with?
That's what will happen if you ban eroge of any kind; people will continue to produce them in some form, be it illegal or not. Have you seen Katawa Shoujo? It's a very well made game made by everyday people like you and me. While that game does not involve hardcore ass-rapings and beatings and omg female brutality call the cops, it's still the kind of quality we can count on from anyone being forced to produce while under the watch of the law.
But really, while I support your right to support this, pushing for more bans and censorship is not something I can just ever agree with. If someone is 18 or older and they buy/play this game, they have every right to. They're a legal adult and I'd like to think by that age at most people know the difference between right and wrong, fiction and reality, and are of sound mind enough to make decisions for themselves, everything from their future career, where to live, and even what porn they want to get off to.
While you may not like rape, real or fictionalized, getting rid of it and trying to hide the fact it exists in any form is no way to solve our problems. You should be making people aware such things exist and get them to fight the real crime while letting them make their own informed decision about any fictional media that involves it.
You don't like it? Fantastic, I respect that. Don't look at it then. There's plenty of things I don't like or agree with but let exist alongside me and support those that enjoy it. Roping people into bans and telling others what's wrong and how they should feel about it and what they should do is a disgusting mentality; we're no longer little children, still developing and learning, who need to be told not to put forks in electric sockets. Once we're done growing up and learning, if you want to stick that fork in there, then do it with extreme gusto I say.
I abhor real rape. Fictional rape and rape jokes and the like don't bother me. I abhor real child molestation, but shota and loli are free to do as they please in my mind. They're pixels, lines on paper, art of some form. Unfortunately, as well written as they can be, they cannot feel real emotions or exist in reality or feel pain or happiness ever. However, it's obvious real people like you and I can, otherwise why would we be here right now arguing on the internet about such things?
It's real people that are being hurt; protect them, fight the real rapists. The pixels and drawings were set up that way for a reason; to get off with. Expend your energy and thoughts (as it's obvious you're full of ideas and energy from typing so much tl;dr as the rest of us here are) to a nobler, more real life cause. I could agree with you and get behind that then.
But when you take away fiction? No. I'm sorry. You will never find an ally in me, no matter what it is you're banning.
Am I willing to march down to political offices with signs in my hand declaring how much I love freedom of speech and creativity, even if it includes fictional rape and have people label me as sick and deviant? Hell yeah.
Am I willing to help people fight this and maybe perhaps learn to make their own games? Hell yeah.
Would I martyr myself for such things? Hell yeah.
It's obvious people like you and I can never peacefully co-exist, Kokopure, even if we agree on things like real rape being terrible. But please, just as I have taken the time to peacefully discuss this with you, do try to think what it's like in our shoes.
Remember, what you like and support and maybe even your very self could very well be next, and who will stand up for you then?
I would reply to Kokopure, but I don't even know how to begin.
Call me arrogant ,but to be frank, you seem to have a chip on your shoulder for something else I can't put my finger on... I don't think your issue is with "rape games", but with something else.
Mmmmkay.
Well, suffice to say my parting remark is I still stand my beliefs and you still stand by yours; this is directed at LunarSD, Atma, Michio, Anonymous, anyone who has taken the time to post a tl;dr. This is, as everyone will hopefully agree, remarkably typical of such debate.
I think the only point in posting repeated tl;dr while -knowing- your opponent will not be swayed is a hope that while your opponent may not agree with you, they will understand you.
I see very little of that happening here.
Maybe you don't understand my position, maybe I don't fully understand yours either. Communication has broken down to name-calling.
So, I guess you get the last word, because I'm done here for now. It's become an effort in futility for both sides.
Anyway, we'll know the real consequences in a few years or so.
You never adressed Shuu's point.
I'm sure he can copy and paste it when next this issue crops up again. It's a good point, particularly because, as this thread shows, pro-censorship advocates can not see sexual deviants as human beings with legitimate needs. I honestly thought they could. I was naive.
I do agree with her this is getting nobody anywhere. Though classifying someone whose group just succeeded in forcing a ban as "aggressors", is not "name calling". Nevertheless, they want to look like the good guys, so they will identify accurate classifications of their own actions as simple name calling, while they continue their aggressions. This is what's called "being handled", I believe. Psychological warfare.
If you give in to them and speak nicely with them, they will reply nicely, while succeeding in banning and doing whatever they want. No different than if you give in to your emotions and try and appeal to them, to persuade them what they're doing is unethical, they will still just reply nicely, while succeeding in banning and doing whatever they want. It's a power trip, abusing majority in numbers, over minority in peaceful tolerance.
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But we wont see the real consequences of anything in a few years, because:
A) Only one organization is banning sexually deviant games, any number of others will still be releasing them.
B) Even if they do eventually get japan to ban deviant eroge, what's already been published in the past will simply increase the illicit P2P traffic, as people who want the games will always be able to find them.
C) Japan is not the only country in the world, others can make their own games, or japanese developers can get published where it's still legal.
Therefore no accurate statistics can be tracked for this kind of thing. Try as they might, succeed partially as they might, they will never be able to get the statistics they ultimately appear to be after. Just the bans...
This was my first time actually speaking with someone with such passion for one immobile path to solve a problem, without regard for more peaceful alternate paths.
So much compassion for one group of people it could theoretically be positively affecting (rape victims), yet zero compassion for the greater majority [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_fantasy#Fantasy] it would definitely be negatively affecting. It was disturbing, and I'm not sure what is the best way to help these sort of people empathize better with those their actions are negatively affecting. I'm no longer certain they even can :\
Freedom of Speech... women discrimination... I have had this debate with another person in another website but I had not the verbosity to keep on replying to their comments, so in terms of who had the last word, they won. I will copy Atma's last comment for reference though, it was great.
I embrace all fiction and freedom of speech, some people say freedom of speech should be regulated (which it is when it directly endangers society) and fiction should have limits. Go figure.
Ahhh thank you you're welcome *blush*
even the rape game banned,the longest history relic known as 'porn video' still existed to fulfill other people's needs...
I don't see source mentioned at all. Only references to previous SC articles and some random blobs of text.
Does someone have a link to an actual japanese article on this, or is this more weeaboo rage steering by SC?
My impression is a heaping helping of the latter. While I'm sure there are sources of this somewhere, I do not have.
I will say the issue certainly hasn't been helped by the injection of SK trolls. If whoever moderates this thread values the intelectuality of debate, they'd have removed that youtube link up there instead of letting /b/tard trolls run rampant over an Equality Now ad that doesn't even -mention- the rape games.
(though I must admit preventing trolling on youtube is akin to trying not to drop your rotten apple in the dirt.)
I guess the TL;DR response to your question is that they're not mutually exclusive.
Artefact based all of this on primary news sources. Take time to read through the articles. He links to them.
And did you just equate Sankaku with /b/? You did that on the youtube comments. Wtf. That wasn't even Sankaku, that was orchestrated on 4chan.
This is ridiculous.
Rules of the internet:
1- do not talk about /b/
2- do NOT talk about /b/ dammit!
*facepalm*
in b4 "This is Sparta"
You do realize that a good portion of SanCom hates 4chan and doesn't support them at all, right? They're the ones coming up with the YouTube porn thing,not us. A lot of us here actually -try- to be civil and not raid everything. Calling us /b/ is like calling the sky plaid - it just ain't right.
There are some /b/tards here but most of us more articulate ones here tend to frown upon them severely.
Sure, a ban coming from a country known the world over for saying "we are thinking about it" for yes and "it may be difficult" for no. I guess in this instance "Ban" means "Evasive document with loopholes and workarounds".
Nice detailed post Artefact.
Pretty much the only politically correct move EOCS had available to them.
It'd be a much nicer world if reactionists and morals-abusing egomaniacs didn't run countries and politics, but that isn't going to change until we outpopulate them with androids.
So for now the flames will die down and both sides will be able to point at some part of all this drama and say their side won.
Game developers still have their alternatives available to legally create and sell what they want.
This is a sad sad day for rape fans everywhere
*Salutes*
The market is now ripe for American rape games to be created and exported to Japan.
If they even make them themselves, damn weeboos.
laws are meant to be broken. i don't see why this is any different. give it a few more months and things should be back to normal once the media and government find something else to harass.
Which comes back to, just what are normal decent people doing, donating money to support such minority groups who can't do anything more than to lie about their objectives and do something so.. lame.
If anything, no women of the right mind would want those crazy old coots to represent for all women in the world.
Then don't sell them to the public though normal channels and by pass the moronic ban...I swear this will not end well...
It takes one bloody weaboo to put it up on Amazon.
No wonder the Bush Administration remained to ruin 4 more good years.
So much for japan being the a country where perversion of any form is tolerated as long as it's 2d. Truth be told, this feminist bullshit is sort of getting out of hands. Apparently, they want everyone to think their way, and they'll automatically condemn you if you don't, regardless of your innocence (Most haven't done jackshit outside the realm of fantasy).
That said, it's almost as though feminists think they're doing the world a favor by depriving sexual deviants of their source of release. This might help the younger generation, or it might not. The effects of a game are about as adverse as a video, so who's to say that forcing sex is any less tolerable than murder? I don't see anybody going apeshit over murder mysteries, or guro. Are all rape hentais/manga/fiction going to be banned next?
Or doing a favor to all women in the world for that manner.
Really now, it's like saying all other women are that helpless. Sheesh.