The trial of an American man arrested for ordering loli manga from Japan has ended after he pled guilty; he now faces a possible 15 year sentence, along with a $250,000 fine and the loss of all his precious loli manga.
The man, Iowa resident Christopher Handley, pled guilty to “possessing obscene visual representations of the sexual abuse of children and mailing obscene material,” charges stemming from postal workers rifling through his package and discovering it contained manga supposedly depicting underage sexual activity.
After lengthy and complex legal proceedings, details of which were covered in the previous article on the matter, Handley finally folded and faces a maximum sentence of 15 years and $250,000 in fines, along with forfeiture of anything the government happened to take during the trial. Sentencing is due at a later date.
The precise nature of the material he was arrested for is not clear, but Handley’s lawyer has previously insisted they were harmless yaoi comics, which suggests either that the material was rather willfully misconstrued by the authorities, or that the defence is trying to pass off shota as being “yaoi” in order to lessen the opprobrium.
His lawyer, Eric Chase, explains in comments to the media last year:
“There is explicit sex in yaoi comics, and the men are drawn in a very androgynous style, which has the effect of making them look really young. There’s a real taboo in Japan about showing pubic hair, so they’re all drawn without it, which also makes them look young. So what concerned the authorities were the depictions of children in explicit sexual situations that they believed to be obscene. But there are no actual children. It was all very crude images from a comic book.”
However, we hear from the confession that the shipment in question consisted of “obscene material, including books containing visual representations of the sexual abuse of children, specifically Japanese manga drawings of minor females being sexually abused by adult males and animals.” The US Postal Service later conducted a search of his domicile and found the rest of his collection.
The circumstances surrounding Handley’s guilty plea are distinctly unclear (see the forum), but the Comic Book Legal Defense Fund, a pro-freedom of expression group closely involved in the case, condemns the wretched coward for caving in and so potentially introducing a precedent which could be used in further prosecutions, though they are hopeful this can be mitigated:
“Naturally, we are very disappointed by this result, but understand that in a criminal case, every defendant must make the decision that they believe serves their best interest. Because the set of facts specific to this case were so unique, we hope that its importance as precedent will be minimal. However, we must also continue to be prepared for the possibility that other cases could arise in the future as a result.”
The case is legally complex, but the core issue is that loli manga remains Constitutionally protected free speech, as judges have ruled the laws banning it contravene the First Amendment right to freedom of expression.
However, a legal loophole allows the charges of possession to stand due to the material having been “moved in interstate commerce,” even though it would otherwise be Constitutionally protected art.
Those looking for more speculative details, including supposed comments from those familiar with Mr Handley alleging he was a victim of exceedingly bad legal counsel, can read more on the forums.
Strangely, the vigour with which the US has been defending the rights of fictional children has not changed the fact that the USA remains one of the least safe places to be a child in the developed world according to the UN, despite having a legislature which seems obsessed with child protection…
Now this worries me. I wish he had not caved in. Every bible thumping moralist must licking his/her chops over this...dammit!
~ Agreed...
Don't mention the Bible with this. Has nothing to do with it.
I love the Bible. I enjoy "hentai". I enjoy loli and >almost< any fetish you can find in h-manga/anime. And I wish the death of every disgusting moral crying notfittolive-human. :)
Maybe one can rage at the catholics. But everyone already knows that the catholics are the stupid fucks which gives christians a bad name. Really, other christians don't generally like catholics. Personally I believe that most big catholics names belong in Hell for misusing God's name. Read Dante's Inferno for more info.
It's not really "The Bible" itself.. rather the person behind it, who holds it HIGH and takes it for every word as TRUE!
Granted, to some it is...
But those zealots who take it and run with it, as well as interpret it differently, or see it as what they wish it to be... is what I would like to believe was the reference being made.
Now I have lived in the "Bible Thumping South" and (aka) "The extreme Bible belt"....
Where one can not escape the church in every corner... and I have seen those zealots... >.< ... so I can relate...
How about Bible Black?
lol...
woah woah woah now.....I'm catholic....in no way do we catholics give you over pompous "everything is wonderful" christians a bad name. If anything its the other way around. You damn christians and your damn camp fire singing. Trying to "spread the word of the lord" I HATE YOU.
*sits crossed legged and strums guitar*
Kum~ba~ya ....
*swaying*
Nigga best be trollin', Catholics are everything wrong with Christianity, They're the ones responsible for the suppression of science and art during the Medieval ages. The Crusades? All them. The near complete annhilation of the Aztec culture, one of the most sophisticated native cultures to arise in the Americas? Guess who...
But.. but.. Catholic priests love the shota...
@ Anon ~
I am a former catholic and I know it has changed dramatically! ~ I disagreed and became discontent with it.
For many reasons...
I see your points and I agree... however, many (others) also have ~ "abused many" ~ throughout history behind the guise of (Religion) ...
Which is why its such a touchy~thorny subject to begin with...
Like Narcissist ~
I too ~ "I enjoy “hentai”. ~ I enjoy >almost< any fetish you can find in h-manga/anime. ~ And I wish the death of every disgusting moral crying notfittolive-human. :)"
I agree, but, the Bible itself, has nothing to do with this...its those who abuse the words held within...and its not always the Catholics...
hey hey,don't blame the past. catholic in the past and in the present (I hope) is different. Yeah in the past (or even present) they do mistakes and things and such, but don't bring those mistakes to the present. It's like someone always blame you for everything only because you ever done mistakes in the past, especially if you believe that your side is always right, other side always wrong
Protestant have their own way of thinking and do things, yet so do Catholic (and also other religions). But is it religion that cause the problem here? I believe it is more to the people running their propaganda using religion (or morality standard) name that cause all the problem.
in summary, blame the people (some small-headed stupid bastards that cannot find the difference between art and fantasies with reality), not the religion or the bible!
and for someone's sake, it's just a drawing man! Not 3D child porn!
so true
Clearly the first poster in this this thread fails to comprehend that the Catholics are the least Bible thumping of all the Christian Religions. Or perhaps they have failed to noticed just how obnoxious American Protestant sects can be when they condemn others in God's name?
Wow, Narciss. Surprised and really delighted to see you defending Christianity..:3 Even being a Catholic myself (who isn't really that religious), i can really see what you meant; the Anti-condomn law, the "Only Catholics can go to Heaven" ideology, how some try to concur the world and stuffs. The only good thing being one is that we're allowed to drink beer (i'm not boozer,though) and eat any kind of meat..
Just shows how little protestant heretics know about the Catholic faith, Church, and history. Truly disgraceful.
Catholics don't believe in "No Salvation outside of the Church" that belongs to the protestants as well (e.g. Church of Christ)
Please take your religious propaganda somewhere someone cares. There's plenty of right wing, bible thumping websites who will welcome you. Honestly, if you can't recognize the stupidity of bringing any religious argument into this then you need to stay off the Internet. Oh and @ Ickyarkman: you don't give Christians a bad name. You give everyone and everything ever associated with your religion a bad name. Your religion has resulted in hundreds of thousands of people dying for something that you can't even prove exists. I hope you die of rectal cancer :) have a wonderful day.
As far as I'm concerned, anyone who tells someone else what to believe in and calls their faith crap otherwise is a douche.
The world is divided between douches and non douches. That's all you need to know.
Catholic, scientologist, atheist...it doesn't matter. When you're an asshole, you're simply an asshole.
AMEN to that! XD
Yes an asshole is an asshole. But I don't see why some troglodyte has to blame something on Catholics that has nothing to do with them, then back it up with throngs of unrelated bullshit. That, to me, is an asshole.
Let me just say this, for the sake of saying it.
It's ok to believe in what you think is right, but it's not ok to force others to think the same way as you do. Everyone has equal rights to choose what to believe, albeit with consequences.
Personally, I'm a free thinker and I'd rather not believe in any kind of divine intervention other than karma and fate itself.
Yet, I keep it to myself and not go on a lecture rampage when people force me to be something else.
oh boy, it's so good being me...
i don't have to blame anyone but the ones involved in a problem... i don't have to preach morals to anyone... i choose to believe in what i want and not others want me to believe...
could it be it's because i'm atheist? don't know and who cares...
moralf@gs are everywhere...
The bible, christians morals and YOU suck. All outdated. Living much beyond what they were useful for.
The problem isn't with the Bible or the concepts of Christianity in general. The problem is zealots who see fit to force their morals on the rest of society. It's one thing to subscribe to a set of beliefs and follow those beliefs, and another thing entirely to force people to follow those beliefs.
I personally think that religion has a place in society, and it's up to an individual whether to choose whether or not to follow it. When someone's views are forced on people, it's essentially making their choice for them. I think that's the reason that Christians get a bad rap these days. Too many zealots trying to force their religion on society at large.
Also, I don't really understand the Protestant/Catholic divide that well. In the end, they're still the same religion...
Atheists are the worst prostelyzing "moralf@gs".
lol i made an anon mad. I'm so scared....go die in a fire fool. Aside from all this BS. I wouldve also defended my right to have it. ITS MINE GOD DAMMIT!
Oh look Protestants vs. Catholics...
As if you Protestants have anything to say. Your sect gave us Jerry Falwell, Pat Robertson, Rick Warren, and moving over to the lunatic fringe even more, Fred Phelps.
You people are no different than the Catholics really. Catholics got their crazy clergy members, Protestants got their loony bin televangelists. Hell the least asshole of Abraham religions is probably the Jews. Oh and as for all other sects hating the Catholics. The East Orthodox sees you Protestants as heretics just the same, they hate you guys as much as they hate the Catholics.
Oh by the way, I'm not a Catholic, I just point out BS whenever and where ever I see it.
WHERE IS THE LOVE?
There are only two rules in Christianity: love God, and love your fellow man. Complex doctrines and theology are interesting, but really, they have about as much effect on your salvation as sankaku complex. Not a lot.
What is this about "x vs y"? God loves everyone equally, so should we. Even people who are wrong! Continue to love them, even if they reject the Truth.
No, the only real rule in Christianity is to believe in Jesus as savior. Nothing else is required. Of course that starts a whole 'nother argument about whether a true believer would live decadently or according to the teachings of the Bible.
Obviously people have abused religion(s) in the past and will always continue to do so. It's human nature and it's unavoidable that terrible atrocities will be committed "in the name of ____." Not a phenomena that is restricted to religion in the least, look at all the Communist regimes that purportedly exist "for the people." Hell, even in the USA you see "public servants" trying to vote themselves raises when we're in one of the worst recessions this country has ever seen. Or just turn on the tv late at night and watch all the scam infomercials being played.
TLDR; people like to take advantage of other people. As Haruhi sings, God Knows.
Well, hail satan then.
Anon does well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
Not this shit again! I'm surprised if any "Christians" actually visit this site in the first place. Oh, the irony!
You know what my opinion of Catholics are?
They have the best looking churches.
Seriously, that stuff is bootiful, I'm glad that animoo authors love it so much.
@Ukonkivi
Oh, totally!
And the acoustics in those churches? Ideal for when I really want to hear my sacrifices screaming pitifully for me to stop while I'm improvising new orifices in their meat candy to rape with snakes and flaming bibles wrapped in barbed wire.
I don't know where I'd be right now if not for the wonderful things the Catholics have brought into the world, to make it such a better place.
Their obscenity laws and their beautiful churches are just the tip of the iceberg, as you're steering directly into it.
shut up about religion off topic matters, loli sux, now it's even worse...
u should continue watch busty hentai not some flat loli...
Way to bring everyone back on topic dude.
Oh wait, that was just you rambling crudely in troll-speak, wasting people's time, even your own valueless troll-time, for no purpose whatsoever.
Who cares how much you love blubber fetishes or flatchests, there's a guy here who's getting put in a fucking legal blender over nothing.
You've gotta be living in a cave and unable to care about anything to not feel for him, to not resent what's happening here.
Anon - "No, the only real rule in Christianity is to believe in Jesus as savior. Nothing else is required."
That is exactly what I always say, and it is also the reason to my dislike of catholics. They just push false lies onto people because of worthless morals which they think is their mission to uphold.
If things had went as the catcholics wanted then Luther would have been murdered, and a lot less people would be christians.
One also needs to be able to differ what in the Bible is written by man (and affected by the times, writer and society), and what is said/done by God.
Your own relation with God is the only thing that matters. :)
Christians which are unable to see that, I feel sorry for.
Narcissist, You are indeed as your name claims. You know nothing of Catholicism or their true relation to protestantism. You have only learned what you have been force fed by your inadequacy-complex protestant leaders. Spend some time with a catholic who is pleasant and knows the religion well. There are plenty, Catholics are the majority religion in the nation.
ive met many catholics in my life, and none have been pleasant.
Have you religiously antagonized them? Because that tends to make Catholics unpleasant. Not to mention you have a clear personal bias that can be found in your tone and pedantic answer.
Heaven forfend someone doesn't agree with the Catholics' views!
Actually it's more like people who have no knowledge of the historical background of the Catholic Church and thus have factless arguments based on grudges grown out of years of others with no knowledge of what they speak. If someone is going to make a claim they should back it up with facts or step aside.
Thank God we have not been caught!
I am an Pandeist, but I have to stand on the side of Catholic Church this time. Because Catholics are nowhere as ortodox as Heretics. Catholicism is barely even a christian religion. It is just a vesel for all pagan stuff which gathers in it from the ancient times. It's all about funny hats,festivals,long ceremonies, eating,drinking. Few of the "Saints' weren't even living people, they are just pagan gods asimilated into christian panteon. The same goes for all the virgin-mother Mary and her thousand local incarnations.
Catholics don't take Bible seriously, most of my religious friends haven't readed it for years and probably never will for the rest of their lives.
Heretics take all that stuff literallly, with rib-woman,magical tree and talking snake. Catholic Church officialy supports theory of evolution and Big Bang. Some thologist even support the doctrine that all good people will reach salvation,regardless of their religion.
Sure priest think using condoms is a sin, but at last they don't say that "Handicapped children are offspring of devil and should be killed fter birth" like Martin Luther said. Yep that's what the great Luther thought.
"Don’t mention the Bible with this. Has nothing to do with it.
I love the Bible. I enjoy “hentai”. I enjoy loli and >almost< any fetish you can find in h-manga/anime. And I wish the death of every disgusting moral crying notfittolive-human. :)
Maybe one can rage at the catholics. But everyone already knows that the catholics are the stupid fucks which gives christians a bad name. Really, other christians don’t generally like catholics. Personally I believe that most big catholics names belong in Hell for misusing God’s name. Read Dante’s Inferno for more info."
You are wrong here. All catholic countries (with the exception of Ireland) are much more liberal in questions like these. In South America, Spain or Italy you would never get 15 years for images like these. Its from protestantic countries like US, UK and Sweden ideas like this is spreading like a disease throughout the rest of the world. We have a huge moralpanic over child and teen sexuality in these countries.
His lawyer really failed him here. There is no reason that he should have taken that plea bargain. 15 years for a first offense and highly questionable use of the commerence clause makes me feel his attorney didnt represent him well.
Agreed.
Unless the bail time is a lot shorter, you could have raped a real live child and gotten away on shorter charges in some states!
Zealotry is everything wrong with chris....er...religion you take anything touched by humans hands (IE interpreted by humans) as absolute then you all you can do is devied by zero because nothing is reasonable or safe.
America being American.
so true.....
"Didn't Obama promised CHANGES,if this what he meant, America loli hentai lover, YOUR FUCK!!!!!!
I don't think changes applied to loli. In order to change the reactions to loli you would have to somehow change the base instincts of people around the world, not just America. The vast majority of people see it as child porn or akin to child porn even if it legally may not be. The general consensus of an entire species is not easily swayed.
The problem is not religions, it is people who just don't get it. They take a verse from this book and a verse from that book and make up some totally off the wall meaning.
I have to admit loli makes me nervous as hell but I cannot damn loli while anti-abortionists stand on the streets with a six by nine photo of a nearly term fetus that has been torn limb from from limb. Where in the hell do they get the idea that it is "God's will" that small children see a photo of a mutilated baby but someone cannot have a few mangas in his closet.
Actually, the problem IS religion, and the bullshit sexual morality of those religions!
It's about time to realize that this is coming from religion and the idea that children are 'innocent' of sexual things and are having them 'forced' on them when anyone sexually propositions them.... load of crap, to be blunt!
Since we are BORN with genitals, it's pretty clear that nature expects us to be having sex from a VERY early age.
Since we are BORN with a brain, it’s pretty clear that nature expects us to be having coherent thoughts from a VERY early age.
Some of us aren't quite there...
Are you sexually propositioning children. An adult propositioning an eight year old ,to be blunt, is a load of crap and he needs to be isolated from small children.
Two children playing doctor is natural. nothing wrong there,
I wouldn't have caved in and by the applicable laws Lolicon and Shotacon are STILL NOT ILLEGAL! This was one case, and frankly if it is EVER appealed..... he will be found innocent and the conviction overturned.
In during religious moralfag shitstorm...
Remember kids, on the internets NEVER ever mention any holy books, any gods, or any similar religious reference. Seriously.
P.S.: Especially not in the first post!
well, you can't blame social conditioning and peer pressure. I'm sure Iowa is one of those states that has KKK backing the whole economy and sh!t. yet it is still sad that this wimp didn't stand up for his own rights.
LOLI OR DIE~!
ggs
To all the supposed Catholics commenting on this article - use your brains. The commenter has realized the fact that the higher ups are being extreme about morals because they want to win votes from the moral people, i.e. ignorant religious people who happen to have a host of sexual taboos. And you take it as a personal affront. Now THIS comment is a personal affront. Flame away.
Nice avatar ritchan. :D
republican christians are always to blame
What a weakling. I would fight that crap all the way to the supreme court if I had to. He should be shot for giving up his right to own loli manga.
This case has been going on for 2 years apparently. I can't blame him for not fighting this all the way. Plus the legal fees are expensive.
1) My first and second amendment rights out way any monetary value.
2) He had the ACLU on his side and from my understanding they aren't that expensive.
ACLU weren't helping him.
It wasn't the ACLU, it was the Comic Book Legal Defense Fund.
Sorry I misunderstood, as in the forums them made it sound like they were. :( ACLU should have been there then.
That's why I dropped my ACLU membership. They seem to defend just about everything else except cases involving Art... CBLDF is a much better membership.
Also in comparisin to the max fine and jail time money wouldn't be much of an issue.
Brent hits the nail on the head: I would be fighting this ALL THE WAY because the max fine and jail time would be MORE than worth the expense of fighting this to the bitter end (that might not be so bitter!).
Loli manga is legal due to the first ammendment, but uppity assholes who aren't too keen on the thought will try anything and everything to get this man convicted. It's retarded, really. It's just a fucking comic book.
Well originally there was George Bush's PROTECT act that tried to extend the definition of CP to include drawings but an earlier Supreme Court case ruled that was unconstitutional.
Unfortunately we still have to worry about obscenity apparently.
I don't understand why we have to worry about obscenity, it's not like we're waving it around in public.
Frankly I don't really understand the damn laws surrounding this thing myself. Apparently mailing obscene material, even in a sealed package, is grounds for prosecution. From what I understand, he was unlucky when US customs randomly inspected his package from Japan.
I think they will flag you if you are importing abnormal amounts of stuff from someone, or otherwise showing suspicious behavior.
If anyone has anymore information regarding this, it would be helpful.
This would make me angrier, but I already have zero respect for the US legal system.
Makes me wonder how my shipping proxy gets away with it then. They have at least 20,000 feedback on yahoo.jp so that's a lot of packages going from the Japanese Warehouse to the warehouse in America.
Oh well, my stuff slipped through.
IS ANY1 WORRIED ABOUT THE FACT THAT POSTAL WORKERS WERE "TRIFLING" THROUGHT HIS PACKAGES!? This is the real fucking problem and lawsuit. I hope this issue was addressed in court. He should have counter-sued for invasion of privacy.
Good luck with fighting something that's been around since 1772. One of the Postal Inspection Service's missions is to prevent contraband (drugs, explosives, and the like) from being transported through it and while loli/shota is technically art according to the courts, the general public sees it as child porn. He had the bad luck of having his package intercepted and inspected but the postal service does inspections randomly and so does U.S. Customs.
Indeed, privacy has been more or less a moot issue for a while now. And the sad part is that all of the laws were passed and the common person doesn't even know. At least we're not the UK yet...
I must confess that since I'm from the bible belt my definition of the 'average person' might be a bit less well informed on legal proceedings.
The common person doesn't care, either. If it has persons of arguably young age involved in sexual acts, it "child porn" to them. Argue all you want with people and bring up any laws and cases you see fit; the general public will still think you are a pedophile.
Interesting, Anonymous, that you would call me a pedophile when all I was saying is that nothing you or I do is safe from peeping eyes.
It was a you in the general sense of the matter. I like loli but I have zero illusions unlike so many others that were I to show it to friends and relatives, they would undoubtedly see me as a pedo.
That PROTECT Act was just as rehash of NUMEROUS other laws that have already been overturned.
As I have said before, this whole 'outrage' over pedosexuality is due to bashing on homosexuality not being allowed anymore.
Once pedosexuality is accepted (it is coming people!), they will try to move on to something ELSE to bash on.
It's time to realize that these 'child sexual abuse', statutory rape, child pornography, etc. laws were NEVER meant to protect children.... they were meant to keep children ignorant (not innocent) of sexual things (that REALLY works considering I started being sexually active with other children at 3, though I didn't know that was what it was called) and force the 'morality' of the MINORITY on the rest of us.
Loli? Noo... Just crude images from a comic book.
o.o;;;;
i'm getting hella worried now, i have loli manga in gig's of digital and a few hard copies, not to mention that my room walls are full of loli~
*looks at poster of rin covered in chocolate*
whats this world coming to!
Aha, I confession. I'm dispatching a team to come confiscate all your loli right now.
Rent-a-cop: Hey Chief, I think you better come take a look at this...
Chief: Good work Johnny. *pats Johnny on the back* This must be that infamous Kodomo no Jikan from Japan. Let's throw this scumbag into the slammer and throw away the keys.
"... and the rest of these, put them in my room."
I'm dispatching a second team film the said confiscation.
I see black helicopters on the horizon now...
Don't worry, me and my freedom force of lolicons with USSR-Military and assassination training are on our way~!
If you have a problem, if no one else can help, and if you can find us, maybe you can hire... The LGH-Team.
I'm with you, Icy.
I'm with you both. Considering my training at Black Water I'll definitely be a vital asset to this "LGH-Team."
Just wait for the headlines of "Blackwater = pedos." People are going to love them even more than ever.
Where do I sign up for this LGH Team?
I'm dispatching a team to confiscate your team
Where did you get that poster!? I want a copy.
The worst thing is that the US always inspire other countries to do the same. Mine for example. I'm not even a fan of loli hentai but... *sigh*
Exactly my thought. =_=
Yeah. In malaysia, one of the greatest supporters of US, the custom even open ubuntu live cd I ordered. Its FCUKING written all over the package its a sealed ubuntu live cd os. Its not gonna burst into pron os when I installed it, RIGTH!!
Just because it says something on the package doesn't mean that it is that thing inside.
so custom opens every fcuking box/letters/shipment/package just so to make sure the contents is the same as written?
Not every package, but every one according to whatever system they have be it because someone chucked it into a pile on a whim to be checked later or because it was the fiftieth one or whatnot.
Welcome to the life of customs.
poor fucking guy got his life destroyed for a cartoon book that he thought was perfectly legal. well for anyone who wants loli the only answer is to bootleg it illegally. they start the shit the pirate bay finishes it. keep seeding!!!
Already happened, sadly.
http://www.congress.gov.ph/press/details.php?pressid=3253
"Once the picture of child victim is flashed either on the Internet or video clip, the picture is open for the entire world to see. The child loses his or her privacy and innocence which can never be restored," Antonino-Custodio said.
right... so that includes fictional characters?
Rule #34
NO exceptions.
No child is innocent.
For everyone that's worried, just don't import anything questionable since customs does random checks sometimes.
Also, truecrypt.org
or Cypherix Cryptainer LE
the cake is always a lie
Thank you Anonymous with a horribly ugly avatar. This seems more convenient.
Giving up like gives those who want to take freedom away more power. If I were him I would have fought it all the way.
That's the problem: in our system of 'justice' (more like "JUST US RICH!") it's only the rich and the powerful who can fight things through to the end and get TRUE justice in this country.... everyone else is basically SCREWED if the long arm of the law falls upon their heads and starts throttling them.
You hit that one dead on. Justice is directly proportional to the size of your bank account.
Fuck
15 years and 250K for loli?
lol... it's really not funny but here in israel you need to rape a few girls and run over them with a car to get 15 years..
Shit i'd rather get killed by a suicide bomber than die in prison for possession of loli...
Poor guy...
Even in America you could kill someone and end up with less.
thats a sad but true fact :(
Artefact, I don't think his term has been definitively decided yet. Through plea-bargaining, his term will be reduced.
http://www.japanator.com/elephant/post.phtml?pk=9978
There's a longer discussion there. Someone there claims to know Chris, but this is the internet so who knows...
They're trying to make a statement with this guy. I'm gonna put a file(saw)in his b'cake so he can bust out!
Did you notice I already linked to the discussion on the forums?
Yes. It's nothing. I wasn't trying to "correct" you or something.
Well there's the icing on the cake for all this bullshit...Fuck America.
fcuk society of america
This is the internet kiddo, it's allright to say fuck
On topic: FUCK YOU AMERICA!
I am American and still say FUCK AMERICA sometimes... now is one of those times.
/American facepalm ><
Oh ffs.....
FUCK YA! SEAKING!
Death to America! That's all I have to say.
@ H0LiC: lol, I'm American too ^_^ T_T
Me: Shhhh, now they just might start with the-
Gov't: "TERRORIST!"
Indeed, in a recent case a women was charged for "wreckless homicide" for shooting her boyfriend: 5 years time.
Well yeah, but she was a girl. Clearly she was unfairly provoked by her boyfriend before any of this happened.
Where's MikeeUSA when you need him?
heh, here here.
What can i say..? America is pro-violence and guro country? Having pics of naked 2D lolis and real photos of naked little girls decapitated are considered as two different things and possibly; doing the latter one won't get you arrested..
Bring in some of the latter photos to your local authorities (doesn't matter what country) and see what their reaction is.
Hint: I don't think they'll be very happy with you.
DING DING DING! We have a winner! You can actually RAPE a child and get less jail time than this, so something is SERIOUSLY wrong with the laws here.
No kidding. Imagine being asked "what you're in for" and you tell them loli manga.
*suicides*
omg your country needs more stricter rules.
here if you take advantage of women it's life sentence to prison.
I would say the guy deserves it. i mean loli is pretty damn messed up. they should seriously put the same law in Japan. Japan thinks loli is pretty much okay which is totally messed up.
Leave. Now.
> they should seriously put the same law in Japan.
I would kill myself if the Diet did anything more to restrict the production of sexually related manga/anime.
You may not be long in this world...
I dearly hope the Diet remembers Article 19 of the Japanese constitution. It explicitly protects freedom of thought and freedom of conscience.
It might not be enough though, because most politicians are shameless hypocrites...
>>most polichickens are shameless hypocrites...
Fixed.
sexual related anime/manga is how the crime rate for rape and child rape is soo damn low, take that away, and japan will have a HUGE problem on their hand's
+1
Lol yea, cuz without 2D loli, you can only have 3D loli. Present this in court and surely the judge and jury will comply.
The proof is in Canada :P
Wrong. The crime rate is low because most cases go unreported.
Yet another person pulling shit out of their ass. You know shit if you think most of the crimes don't get reported.
most crimes DON'T get reported. that's teh problem. even if they do, they get sorted out in the investigation process. Learn b4 you speak
Of course, it doesn't sway the position Japan holds in terms of crime rate, since the whole "most crimes are unreported" thing would go for all of human society...
You have no real concept of what personal freedom means if you think there should be laws governing imaginary objects.
If there is no victim then there is no crime. You can't throw people in jail over what they think, or what they might do.
Looking at 2D loli makes one no more a criminal then looking at Michelangelo's David.
seconded
Thirded.
+>9000!!!
You are a fucking idiot. There is nothing wrong with lolicon because it is not child pornography.
Take your head out of your ass, Tori.
So being into "messed up" stuffs is a crime?
I don't mean to be captain Obvious here, but this guy/gal is clearly a troll.
You're not captain Obvious, since obviously no one has noticed yet. And sadly your hint will just go unnoticed too.
Loli and having sex with children IS okay... it's just idiots like Tori who have not realized that since we are BORN WITH GENITALS, it's pretty clear that we are supposed to be USING THEM from an early age, and since there is no force field between adults and children's genitals, it's pretty clear that nature/god (if you are stupid enough to believe in the latter!) has NO problem with adults and children making love or having sex together.
> it’s pretty clear that we are supposed to be USING THEM from an early age
Not sure if troll.
you guys are really weird...
Well i guess that' s why you guys are on computers arguing who is the normal perso here.
In your subjective opinion, yes. How do you rule it out as a crime when he does not do harm to anyone? If harm is done to another individual, then it surely is a crime, otherwise, it is merely subjective opinion perpetrated upon those with alternative viewpoints.
Maybe he don't know the words P2P and File Hosting
Maybe he even don't have a PC
Maybe he's an idiot for doing that... ~.~
Maybe he just wanted to support the original authors.
I hate it when law forces us into immoral behaviour...
I don't like having to feel like a criminal for standing up for my beliefs, when they don't actually harm anyone. But that's the way it is. Making me feel like a criminal isn't a great way to prevent me from deciding to act like one some day (purely hypothetical). When the law fails to support and respect my interests, I fail to support and respect the law. :/
Can they call us pedophiles just because of that?
I have almost 100gb (not so big,but i love my collection)of doujin ,most of them ero, most of them are with lolicon theme. I should take life imprisonment for that then.
One of my reasons of having/collecting them it's because I like the drawing of the authors (Akazawa Red, Uropyon, Mudou Eichi and others), and if they like to draw in that style what else can i do?
Sure i would love to support the original authors, but i don't live in japan (yet) and the Internet is the only way which i can show my gratitude to them.
To be honest P2P like torrenting is big no, no.. There are few P2P clients that uses encryption that would help out.
p2p is fine and dandy. I download GIGABYTES of lolicon and other porn a month (though I steer WELL away from anything that appears to have a real child or teenager in it, because right now that IS blatantly illegal, even though it shouldn't be) and I've only had the FBI come to my house ONCE to question about "Do you support having sex with children?" I told them BLUNTLY "Yes, I do...... move along!" and they haven't been back for the past 6 years!
taking away american's loli manga will only make them pursue more realistic loli endeavors
you brought this onto yourselves americans
It does feminist bastards doing..
I 2nd that
Unlike Japan, most child sexual abuses in US are not perpetrated by otaku. Typical profiling of offenders are usually males who have less than a high school education and a low-income job, with a long history of domestic violence/alcoholism, and are usually Hispanic/African American. So banning loli manga will do little in aggravating the situation(maybe except for a few SanCon goers).
Hell just this bullshit has made me think of actually committing terrorism :P
You guys are my witness XD
You should say "freedom fighting". Terrorism is what the media is supposed to label you.
you are totally being monitored right now
Wrong. Frankly, from the studies that have been done, that is a wrong conclusion. The fact is that males who are low-income and have less than a high-school education are more likely to be CAUGHT!
Personally, I would have sex with a child if it was offered to me, and I have a college diploma, earn 50K a year, etc.
From my experiences helping my boss (a lawyer) defend people accused of statutory rape and 'child sexual abuse'..... it's only the people who are CONVICTED who are in that low income and low education category, because the rest are smart enough to challenge the accusations and be found innocent.
Holy shit atleast let him keep the books when you lock him up.
hehehe
hell yeah
Ah, what a load of bullshit. Well at least I don't have to worry, for all the loli I own are digital, and they don't run the risk of "moving in interstate commerce".
So be proud of never supporting any artist.
What a shame. There's one person nice enough to actually BUY his stuff instead of just grabbing it from the net and what do the 'law' people do? Throw him into prison while ignoring all those cheapskate consumers...
i buy my hard copies from an anime convention :3
i would buy direct but i would be too scared
I don't think the 'law' people want loli artists to get support anyways...
Damn these constant double-standards...
"So be proud of never supporting any artist."
Not sure where he said he was proud of it. If I were into loli, given the choice I'd do it too if buying the hard copy meant ending up like this guy. Doesn't mean I like it.
Who said that I never supported an artist before? Who said I was proud of it? You got to stop with the assumptions before insulting someone. Downloading, in a lot of circumstances, is the only way someone not living in Japan can obtain doujinshi. It's not like I'm laughing malevolently every time I download something.
Couple of notes.
First, a lot of stuff is available on download sale these days, so you can buy it digially and support creators without going through the mail. For exampke, http://eng.dlsite.com or http://www.franken.com for two examples with English guidance text.
Second, downloading still counts as transporting across state lines, but they can't prove you got it that way unless it was specifically tracked at the time. (If anyone asks, refuse to say how you got it.)
err... i think they can check you credit card records, right? someone should make a compilations how to buy and not mess with the law.
Just say somebody was using your tor gateway lol
Yeah this guy caved in.
I would have fought to the end and also
argue about how harmless loli manga is.
And why is he the only guy getting fucked in
the ass with the 15 year sentencing? What
about those who provided him with said loli
manga?
I feel as if the system is purposely letting
overseas distributors welcome loli manga so
that the authorities can move in on who is
a possible pedophile.
In fact i don't recall reading that this Iowa
guy was a real pedophile.
Who cares about the 3D kids, fictional child predators are a MUCH more pressing issue!
Do explain how you strongly believe this.
Yea... let's hear a retort on that...
He's saying that if he were in Handley's position, he would plead guilty too. ;)
umm...I was joking... :/ maybe "predators of fictional children" would've been clearer? Basically, I was being sarcastic about how they care more about people that look at 2D lolis than real pedophiles. ^_^;
They are MUCH easier to catch!
Well yeah if your online bragging
about the loli manga you accidently
came all over.
I wouldn't be in this article bragging
like some people already have and think
it's all fun and games. Next thing
you know, your home get's raided the
following morning at 4 am.
There are people lurking in here, maybe
even authorities.
Hmm... what are YOU implying... officer?
Deth: That a warrant for your arrest is being processed as we speak. Judge's signiture is all that is left. See you in the morning.
>you know, your home get’s raided the
following morning at 4 am.
not gonna happen loli heck even if it's a cp your stumbling on without a proxy the feds nor the authority would not bother doing a check up on you, but if you're a host or a server garnering lots of cp ang gives traffic to other network well thats for sure just check on what happen to ch.12 , but still stumbling to trap setup sites by the feds will record your IP for future use..
True. They don't bother checking with small and one time traffic. Same thing applies for selling drugs. They usually aim for drug dealers, so they can root out the source of the problem. However if ur just a drug user, and you get caught, then your slightly unlucky. But, with cp and loli it's different, because the internet is much more complex than money and paper trails. IP logs and such have very little weight when presented in court, due to proxys and such.
My point is, if they don't have solid evidence on you, and they don't suspect you of hosting it, then 99% chance they're not gonna bother. Because they'd need a search warrant, they'd need to call an investigation, and this is more time and money that what it's really worth.
And if most of this stuff is just data on a hdd, then what stops people from simply destroying their hdd, or properly deleted it for good? Of course some fools fall for the old delete/recycle trick.
EVERYONE by now should know that once you delete something, it isn't actually deleted, rather it's put aside to be deleted in the event the space needs to be used.
Point Blank, this guy was just extremely unlucky in the event that his package happened to be inspected, and was somewhat foolish for ordering it.
*Still waits by the door with coffee in hand* ~ *YAWN*
Thats why I put my good 'ol trusty goat's nail hammer right by my computer/bed. Nowadays, you can never be safe even with a lock door or a proxied IP address. :D
Or, anon, you could use truecrypt and not worry about it at all. lol as if a nail and hammer is going to stop some forensics lab from discovering the data on a platter.
same here, i would of fought to the end!
i feel if this keeps going, the prisons are gonna have a lot of killing's, because thats what they do in there if the other prisoners find out if that person was sent down related to children
If I were him, I would have fought all the way, because this case will provide additional motivation for future prosecutions. I would have fought it out of principle because I find it utterly ridiculous for someone to go to jail for any significant amount of time because of some damn drawings. Not only that, but this is really just over some legal loophole that Mr. Handley was unfortunate enough to find himself him.
Couldn't he use "charges stemming from postal workers rifling through his package" as a defense? (package as in mail, not...'package')
Those authors are in Japan, not the USA.
Someone better not let em know about Fakku (based in boston are they not?)
I loli.. XD
Fakku's servers are located in Woodstock, Illinois, USA.
http://geotool.flagfox.net/?ip=76.73.4.237&host=www.fakku.net
woot!! 0_0!
lucky i'm not in US... i can oder or keep as many as i can of manga loli or drawing loli picture... hahaha...
but sometime got ridiculous law in some country... even law for heavy crime also cannot compare to this kind of law...
Wow, this guy should have at least put up a better fight.
not so surprised the CBLDF seems displeased with this too.
but the CBLDF will probably be doing more shit loads of research, donations, activist movements or whatever, even after this case, just in case something else happens.
they gained a first amendment victory in this case with having the judge rule out the act's unconstitutional material, which dropped some of the charges, that's a start but a long way still to go
Hey, they can STILL appeal the case, based on having a 'compelling interest' in the disposition of the case.... people keep on forgetting that.
Oh, America...go to hell, won't you? Oh wait...you're already there. ^_^
Why yes... yes we are.
But as you know full well, misery just LOVES company, doesn't it? ^_-
I seem to be unintentionally giving people the idea that I'm not American... :/ But it also seems to me as though you could be referring to the Japan vs. [In]Equality Now fiasco in your comment : )
When I hear this kind of stuff(freedom of expression and other freedoms being attacked) is happening in the develop nations make me glad(only a little) I live in a underdeveloped country(third world countries have less money to waste on this bullshit[except China and muslim countries]).
Philippines is third world but they've fully made a law that banned all hentai material IN GENERAL.
Philippines? banned hentai? all you need is money and its for a smooth sail
sankaku posted about it just about a mnth ago or less
the law was set legal by feminist activists in the philippines
I can't say I'm surprised, growing up there before going to the US, Philippines is pretty much the only "Full" Catholic country in asia so it's pretty much by the religous + the feminists.
No, I think it's still a bill, not yet a law.
doesnt matter
it wont get enforced anyway
after a raid the very next day the pirated cd stands are back again
Wow. Pretty ironic for the philippines to ban hentai considering their sexy soap stars and singers.
I dunno. I like loli manga, but I ain't gonna admit THAT to my friends. Chances, they ain't gonna even back me up cuz they don't like anime cept for Naruto.
the people i live with know about my loli stash!
and they don't care, they say its not harming anyone, i wish the rest of the UK was like this :(
Hey, I have told people that I am into lolicon manga, and most of them once I come out say that they have seen it and neither like or dislike it.
There was only ONE person who had a problem, and he was one of those 'ultra religious' idiots who everyone else there disliked intensely but wouldn't say that to his face.
lol 15 yrs... wonder how many years will i have if my files have been discovered..
heh, mine's worse :P
oooohh
lemme guess lemme guess
CaP'n picard?? ah no? worse than cp?
9/11 plans? no?? carding? still no luck
hmm i know..
nude photoset of Micheal jackson!!
aahhh crap you got me, the nude set of MJ and the 9/11 plans
XDXD
and CP is a huge nono
i may like my loli but a real child is just too wrong
Ndeed... (Real) Child Porn is wrong... and I condemn it...
@ Yuuichi: Good thing about the CP, you'd probably get more time for it than MJ or the plans...
Eh?! O.o
So, it comes down to this now?
GADS man, he should have ~ *stood his ground* ~ and fought it all the way.
Hmm, it seems that there (may) have been additional pressures placed on him, outside of court.
Once he was placed in the public eye... I am VERY sure he was harassed and fun of... and of course the (added unseen) pressures of being talked about behind his back, (plus) the reputation damaging factor...
~ like hauntedskin stated at the beginning of this report:
"Now this worries me. I wish he had not caved in. Every bible thumping moralist must licking his/her chops over this…dammit!"
I must agree...
Damn it! ~ (I just noticed) ~
Please insert ^made
"and (made) fun of… "
These are hard times..
What really BOTHERS me is that the GROWN MAN was reading shota/yaoi.
meh, i have shota, its all traps XD
yeah
but they're different reports and rumors to what Handley had apparently
one report says from the customs it was loli but his lawyers claim it was shota/yaoi ero
or I wouldn't be surprise if either of them found BOTH in his collection
but who knows at this point
Huh?
Since when is *age* a factor in this?
Are you implying that a ~ "older man" ~ is more prone to be a molester than a young one?
That's insane...
Maybe he thinks that suddenly people lose interest in porn when they get older.
LOL!
Really now.... that hasn't happened to me...
I fap regularly to weird stuff that I won't even describe.
In advance, sorry if someone feels offended.
F*CK YOU, the motherland of hypocrisy.
Offended? I'm GLAD you said it! It's true...go to California, that's about as bad as you can get around here.
Oh look, another believer!! I commend you, sir.
wow...fuck. feel really sorry for the guy and also makes me reconsider buying 1000s of loli manga over in japan this summer... so if i get caught by US customs coming back the pond- 15 years + 250K? Guess i should consider renting out in tokyo =/
The sheer cost of 1000s of loli manga should be enough to make you reconsider. Seriously.
do hope he gets a severely reduced sentence as well as FUCKING PROTECT OUR FREE MUTHERFUCKIN SPEECH.
the mangaka who drew that crap are pervs and this weabo is a perv
fucking pervs
lol...@ you. why are you here free speech nazi?
lol @fuckng perv.. why r u here anyway ^_^
To troll?
I wish Sumaga would be translated already...good progress though I think.
Oh, and that's what happens when you confess your lolism to officials. Shouldve said they were Yaoi coloring books or something.
No, it doesn't. Frankly, I told the FBI I was into lolicon stuff, and they were like "Whatever... you don't have any real child porn with real kids in it, right?" I told them "No... though I don't really have a problem with the stuff I've seen on the internet with real kids (it's mainly just children posing nude anyway, there aren't very many things with children actually being doinked!)."
They asked me "Do you go searching for that stuff?" I told them "No... just comes up every now and again in a search on Google/MSN/Yahoo."
They left and haven't been back in 6 years now.
...I find this very hard to believe.
America for the FAIL!!!
this sucks >=(
Okay, why is shouta referenced as a loli in this article. More importantly, what happened to customer privacy in mailing service. If I had birthday money in cash sent by mail, I would not want some random postal worker opening it, because he or she was curious, and taking it.
Because it's Iowa?
If it were Southern California, the mailman
jams your mail and shit in the mailbox and
doesn't give a damn about what the contents
are.
It's the customs agents who look at the contents of packages, not the mail who drops it off.
Iowa won't allow loli manga, but they allow gays to get married? That makes no sense.
A bit ironic of someone to support loli but then hate on gays.
amazing.
There are very dangerous people, from religions etc.
the solution: lower mayorage. From 18 to 10 years for example. People of 10 years should have the right to vote..
Not low enough! Personally, I think that anyone over 3 should have the right to vote in this country, since they are living here and anything done to this country also affect them in some fashion.
Better thing: lower the damn 'age of consent', if not totally get rid of it... it was NEVER meant to protect children, it was meant to protect adults from doing their damned jobs and monitoring who their children are hanging out with on a daily basis.
Idiot! The reason with haing scanlators is because of this! What a moron! Insead of DL and print the thing or go to Japan himself he just ordered the thing.... AMERCANS ARE SUPER LAZY!
Your name apparently represents your intelligence level.
...
WTH. That means if someone sends me some anime wherein an animal is being hurt, i.e. a dog, then i've committed animal violence. In animes like dragonball where someone dies, if i read it or watch it then i've committed murder. Seriously, all this has got to fucking stop. I'd rather have a chaotic world without order than this pile of garbage.
Have to agree totally.... world without 'order' (and order is apparently forcing the 'morality' of the minority on everyone else right now!) is less good than world of chaos.
Really though..... would a world where children can be sexually propositioned OUT IN PUBLIC where society can TRULY protect them from forced sexual encounters, where lolicon could be sold OUT IN PUBLIC, where the sexual 'morality' is not forced on people unless they are causing physical injury to someone else without that person's permission, etc...... really be a bad thing? Personally, I don't think it would be!
Morality of the minority? Where'd you get that?
In any case i'm fed up with people in general from all the shit i've seen heard and experienced first hand. People are fundamentally fucked up and that's what makes them people. It's not some emo shit not even weltschmerz.
Hmm as upset over this as I want to be, I cant help but be in aw because the pic is just adorable.
lol true~
Can't agree more..
Even the most heinous pornographic drawings and cartoons are still inherently morally superior to any pornographic photos and films.
There's a lot of criminal exploitation and shady pressure happening even in "legitimite" real-humans porn. Whenever real-life humans are used to sate basic carnal desires, there is always the chance that the creation of the product may have involved some form of exploitation and violation of human dignity. In contrast, the nature of fictional drawings and cartoons make such exploitation impossible.
Now you know why some people find real-3D porn to be pig disgusting... because with real-3D porn, there's always the chance that someone had to degrade themselves to make it.
No matter how disgusting the drawings can be, the fake porn is always morally superior porn.
3D porn is so widely acceptable socially that even though I tell people I rather watch 2D because in 3D porn people are actual human beings with lives and families and could as you said most probably been pressured or are poor and it prevents me from enjoying as the fantasy it' supposed to be.
Bullplop, Anonymous! The fact is that there is NO criminal exploitation (unless you are talking about underage people starring in porn, which I personally don't have a problem with as long as they agree to it ahead of time!) and there is no 'shady pressure'. The fact is that everyone in modern porn productions goes into those things with 'eyes wide open', at least for adult porn.
For child porn? The only reason that children and teenagers are able to be 'forced' into that is because we have driven it underground and given it to criminal organizations like the Italian mob and Russian mafia!
There is NO violation of human dignity in pornography.... if the person in question doesn't want to star in pornography and is being forced, she should yell, scream and struggle for ALL SHE/HE is worth and go to the fucking police afterwards!
Those children who have sex early rarely have bright futures
thatz ridiculous and scary. like my fellow poster concluded, these are f*cking comic books. we can't blame the dude for bailing out, though. a two year legal battle would bankrupt almost anyone from a middle class background. i mean, the graphic sexualization of loli characters isn't my personal cup of tea but what of all the somewhat ambiguously aged catgirls and classic anime hotties? are they next?
America - where only the rich are free?
if USA ban loli porn they have to ban the gay, lesbian, transexual and /b/ porn (yep the /b/ have his own category) >=(
/b/, more like banning rule 34 in general, lol
"that sandwich and Diet pepsi are illustrated in obscene acts, cannot be accepted"
I don't blame the government or anything
just this happens because of western society as a whole. Despite it's popularity, manga/anime aren't "that" mainstream here compared to the other things in the media here in the us, especially in Iowa I think (well, here in Cali, I know more people who know anime)
all of these events basically reflects how those who haven't heard of what manga/anime really is think of some of it's more 18+ material and tend to discriminate/prosecute/ridicule it
hell, even if some guy didn't browse with any questionable crap, people around the us who haven't heard of anime/manga or would care less of it would still judge or throw stones or assumptions at you because of your hobby
especially around my school, anime fans are often looked at as "weird" or "social outcasts" even though I have a decent # of friends
It's notable that in the end, the only charges they could stick on Handley were obscenity-related charges. The thing about "obscenity" is that it depends entirely on "community standards", ie: where you live. Something obscene in one place might not be obscene in another place. Iowa's part of middle America, which is generally a pretty conservative, uptight place.
What I think usually
cases like this and how the law handles petty crap like this usually depends on the states or wherever community they live in
wait. so what is going to jail for? obscenity charges can get u 15? and 250k? my god.
I wasn't saying I wasn't in favor of all of this
I agree these charges are shit but as I said, a lot of these things happen more if you live in MIDDLE FUCKING AMERICA, or worse, the SOUTH
I was saying how this type of bullshit happens is where you live
calm down.
i guess Iowa wants to set as an example to other states. Cuz they have one of the highest college graduate rates in the States. They'll make themselves feel better if they make themselves look a bit more civilized than the others states. Though i doubt someone would give a damn about some goody two shoes state.
I hate self-righteous bastards. I hate even more!! self-righteous states/nations.
What if you drew your own loli characters? does that mean you get 15 years?
o
--|-- <--- loli.
A
| |
oh shi- we are all fk'd now
mmm tasty ayu ayu...
DFC
Damnit Anony! You've screwed us all over!!
ZOMG!! Quick, go find a hiding place now!! The nosey Americans are going to hunt you down for drawing a 2D stick loli!!
We need to start a pro loli-futa-shota and whatever shit movement right away if we want this world to be a safer place.
If a tree falls in the middle of a forest and nobody is there to hear it, will it make a sound?
If fictional 2D loli and shota are fucked in manga and nobody is there to read it, will their chastity be kept intact?
It'll make a sound regardless if anyone is around to hear it. It's like saying if a forest was on fire, and if no one was there to see it, was it a forest fire? Well fuck yea. Logic and science will tell you this.
I'm sorry for being a dick, its just that I hate that saying, because it makes no sense.
but the saying makes a valid point in the theory of existence: if there is an atomic collision in the far reaches of space but there is no living material to analyze and understand it, then does that collision have any significance or value? So the tree quote is really a clever method of asking what is the importance of relative existence and whether existence is substantiated by recognization and not by mere existence itself.
Lolis own.
The collision does not have any significance or value whether something analyzes it or not :)
I fully understand the quote, I just hate it.
When all the information is allotted and paralleled, the unity becomes inexistent and will be conceded in uninduced or induced consciousness. The medium that is based on eliminating a segment of the gregarious system ultimately evanesces.
It's an illustration of the requirement to have an observer, and the nature of subjectivity/objectivity, you pompous wankers. Sound requires an interpreter or it's just a shockwave.
Takes a dog to make a sunrise.
CHINA QUALITY!
oops I mean U.S. QUALITY!
Fuck, I've been watching this case for some time now. What a terrible outcome.. 15 years, what the fuck. People need to learn the difference between reality and fantasy. The guy was causing no harm to anyone.
HEY!!!! i have a lot of loli manga thanks to many websites, and i fap to them eternally. so, why im still free and he ordered one, one loli manga, and he's punished... (i know, the logic was thrash)
the feminists are just too old, they will die soon.
Yes... "Age" killed them... It was me and a bunch of mercenary lolicons...
>__>||
So wait, why are we talking about feminists.
Feminists love boobs?
American prisons are already costly to keep up... Why are they jailing people for petty shit like this?
Makes. No. Fucking. Sense.
Are you shitting me?! The department of Justice's Correctional departments are BIG BUSINESS. They employ tens of thousands to 'keep the people safe' by locking up the bad elements of society..... which is of course, pure and utter bullshit.
No one is completely safe. It's proven year after year, but nobody wants to hear about it (those who are in a position to do anything about it at any rate). It's too much like actual work.
This is like a medieval ruling elite witch hunt but reverse gender. Lolicraft?
http://www.suppressedhistories.net/secrethistory/briggs.html
Witchcraft
- The private practice of worship.
- Hunted down for abusing fictional demons.
- People feared for their unborn child.
- 90% were woman.
Lolicraft
- The private practice of worship.
- Hunted down for abusing fictional loli.
- People feared for their unborn child.
- 90% were man.
Private Practice? I live in Canada (where loli is illegal), and Im extremely open about it, I bring it to school with me on my USB as well :P
Honestly guys... do you really have the grounds to bitch about 'morals' and 'what is right' when you are clearly getting off to children being abused? Sure it's a manga drawing with fictional characters... but your arguments seem to have little base when you're bitching about how the American justice system is so 'immoral' and 'wrong' ... when you're getting off to little children being sexually abused.
God help those poor, imaginary children. Fuck the real ones, those snotty little bastards annoy me.
ChonnyD... your arguments are so biased and narrow minded. i hope you really know what argument you're trying to make.
Gravey, do you even realise how PERFECT your avatar is for that comment?
ChonnyD - your avatar, on the other hand, makes me conclude you get excited when you're killing people. How about you get a life sentence for serial murders now? Also: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypocrisy
I think it's not much different from enjoying violence in films and videogames provided that one can clearly distinguish fiction from reality. If no real person or property is harmed in the process, why bother stopping them? Just because I enjoy watching Hannibal Lecter fucking around with other people doesn't mean I keep a stock of human organs in my fridge or something.
Yeah. I played video games and "killed" fictional people. But nobody said anything about it cause its not REAL! when a guy bought a manga with nekid girls inside it they go berserk and he got 15y+250k. I say both its the same thing, The same fucking ballpark. I say fuck circumstances. Those feminists/authoratah should go to the fucking games/film industry too. Where the hell all of these double standards came from!
Chonny, your arguing is like trying to connect the dots that if a butterfly farts in Peru there'll be a torrential rainstorm in Paraguay.
Morality is about 'conventional' right and wrong, and not everyone shares the same values. Doesn't mean the others are wrong or you right.
-1
ChonnyD, you talk about morality, but are you basing them on feelings or logic? You don't seem to be making any logical arguments, so you're probably basing them on feelings. However, moral behavior does not always "feel" moral.
For example, it is moral to demand that all humans have a right to a fair trial. But that doesn't "feel" moral, because our instinctual reflexes are to be angry and vengeful. Those self-righteous feelings actually create very immoral, murderous lynch mobs. If we instead use higher logic, we get the judicial system with its rules of evidence and witnesses, which for all its faults is still much more moral than a raging lynch mob.
Likewise, the instinct to protect children means that drawings of child abuse often "feel" wrong. But when you analyze it logically, a drawing is not reality. There is no actual abuse happening, and the drawing is only a victimless expression of thought. In fact, to criminalize such victimless drawings is to establish thought control and censorship, which actually harms real people. Therefore, the moral action is to support the freedom to make such drawings, even if it doesn't "feel" right.
You don't have to like it, and I can relate to that feeling. It's perfectly normal. But remember, any moral code worth a damn is not based on transient emotional feelings, including feelings such as "like" or "dislike".
After all, if moral behavior always "felt" good and right, then children would never misbehave, no one would ever hurt each other, and we wouldn't need moral codes in the first place. However, the reality is that being moral means ignoring personal feelings when higher logic dictates otherwise.
Sometimes you'll get lucky and the moral action will feel good. But many other times the moral action will not feel good at all. That's life.
So true. But don't expect the sheep in the flock (which ChonnyD obviously belongs to) to even remotely understand this concept.
The lesson you should be learning here is, "Keep quiet if you can't make a cogent argument."
Well, count the victims in thise case. I count 1: the guy who bought the loli/shota manga. He's been persecuted, publically humiliated pretty much beyond redemption, and hasn't actually hurt anyone. I'm not sure how you can conclude that that isn't fundementally wrong.
Fapping to that kind of stuff might not be 'morally' right, as you say, but morality is a shaky concept, heavily influenced by opressive religious guilt. Surely it makes more sense to support a principle like freedom from persecutation and freedom of expression/thought than to morally crusade against people who don't share your moral outlook. Your thinking is very shallow.
epic troll is epic
Sadly, I don't think this one is trolling.
im not sure who washi is arguing...hes supporting what anon @ 13:00 but then his writing style is argumentative...lol?
ehhh nani?
What's there not to understand? He's on the Anti-Censorship/Pro Freedom of Expression side and arguing independently from Anon@13:00. Anon@19:49, which I responded to, just can't believe that someone could say something so stupid, and therefor is accusing ChonnyD of trolling - independently from Washi and Anon@13:00, but perhaps inspired by the huge amount of replies the supposed troll managed to provoke. I however, don't think that ChonnyD was trolling and think he's just genuinely ignorant.
Any questions left? =P
"The US Postal Service later conducted a search of his domicile and found the rest of his collection."
Does this means that this could have been avoided if he used UPS international instead? How exactly was this loli manga discovered?
Just dl like every1 else does???
I spent 13 years of my life in Catholic schooling, and I can say this, nothing but a bunch of moralfag hypocrites. I remember one teacher back in 11th grade when I had to take a class on Catholic social justice. He literally said "As Catholics we have no right to judge others or interfere with their way of life, unless they are living lives that are deemed unfit by Catholic standards."
Seriously, God help us if Catholics gain power in this country. I'm praying for the legalization of gay marriage just because it will show the weakness of the church.
'God help us if Catholics gain power in this country.'
LOL!
Okay, number one, I don't think you realize that this statement is kinda irregular... You're arguing against Catholicism but use 'God help us'?
Another thing is... our past presidents were Catholic (not all). Also, countless high ranking politicians are Catholic. Catholics already have power in this country!
not many past presidents were catholic... i think like one or two were. In largely protestant America, there is/was a anti catholic bias. Obviously this would lead movements against any catholic from becoming largely influential here in the US. That said, it took many years for a catholic man to finally become president, as one did in the last 80 years.
Only Catholic US president was Kennedy.
I think that statement speaks for itself.
As for the issue at hand... /shakes head
God help all anti loli con ppl if I (A PRACTICING Roman Catholic) come into power
It shall rain blood... WORLD WAR THREE!!!
You gotta fight for your right to loli!
Yeah because there are no other gods but the catholic one.
Guys, this is a troll, stop replying so seriously.
his name is chonnyD...why do we respond at all...?
So much Bullshit in one country ....
technically 5o tiny countrieS
Not one country, the world. The world is filled with stupidity.
Including Japan. The place this site is geared toward mentioning information about.
There be a lot of fixing to do on this little planet.
yes lets just establish mars as Eroth and be done with this restriction. on Eroth, everyone gets a loli when they go on loliday
so whats the punishment for being a sex offender in the US? gotta put that sign in your yard stating your a sex offender right or sumthin along those lines? compare that to 15 yrs for having loli manga >.<
As much as I hate to admit it, I'm not surprised. America is full of uptight moralfags from all walks of life and a they're the ones in power. Remember when about a decade or so ago, anime and such were so underground and frowned upon? We may have to go underground again until people get their heads out of their asses and realize that a graphite drawing =/= real child. We'll be frowned upon again, immediately labeled pedophiles and the like because of one fucking stupid ruling. Even regular comic book fans will be frowned upon for this. The nerds are once more the "most likely to do something evil" scapegoat.
It's like the Rapelay thing; instead of fighting a fictional, harmless problem, go after the IRL source and kick a real pedo's ass. Do I support shota/loli? Yeah. Do I support IRL pedophilia? Hell no. Do I think that jacking off to pictures and games leads to peopel doing the actual crime? Hell no. The criminal had to be amazingly fucked up to begin with and this poor man does not fit the profile. He never touched a real kid or even had elaborate plans anywhere in his house. All he had were a few doujins and such. My sympathy is with him and his family.
This is just another example of us being punished for thoughtcrimes and the like. The more this happens, the more I want to get the fuck out of here and live someplace that actually knows what it's doing. Unfortunately, that'd leave me with very few choices to begin with.
if any of us have money to spare, donate to the Comic Book Legal Defense Fund. We need to protect ourselves and others from bullshit like this. If we band together, we may just succeed.
+1
And why do we keep pornographic materials out of reach from children if we so respect the freedom of speech? Because people are influenced by what the read. Even though you are so adamantly defending this guy, we have no idea what kind of content in the materials he possessed. I have no problem with it even if it depicts CONSENSUAL sexual acts involving minors. But it is just wrong if it contains bondage, torture, mutilation, etc. And judging by the sentencing I am inclined to say this guy might not be as innocent as you might think.
Kids tend to be stupid because their minds are underdeveloped; this guy was a grown adult and wasn't even giving his manga to kids or even going near any kids. Last I checked, bondage isn't illegal here. I'm a huge fan of BDSM myself. Want to lock me up now, too? I might throw twine at someone!
You're funny.
No I don't mean that;; All I am trying to say is people shouldn't jump into conclusions that the sentencing is unjust without fully understanding the circumstances.
Oh and whether he gave his manga to kids is beyond the point. If you don't give people ideas, they won't consciously think about it. But when you give people ideas(like from manga), you might run the risk of them acting it out. I myself had no idea that children can become sexual objects until I started watching animes(and no, I am not a lolicon). I don't know. Maybe banning is a little tooharsh. But it is not something that should be encouraged.
"animes" ffffffffffff
>But when you give people ideas(like from manga), you might run the risk of them acting it out.
THOUGHTCRIME POLICE ALERT
Seriously, what the fuck? If a person does something stupid like that, they obviously have some underlying problem to begin with. You're all for locking us up when we have no intention of doing the crime. If the crime happens, it's terrible indeed, but then you can arrest us.
Most of the people who post here are as normal as can be. We just fap to a lot of fictional stuff but we're smart enough to keep it fictional. Look at topics like this or any other one posted on this site involving any semblance of pedophilia; we will denounce IRL pedophilia until we're blue in the face. We're entirely harmless to real beings.
>I myself had no idea that children can become sexual objects until I started watching animes(and no, I am not a lolicon).
Sheltered much?
You said it yourself. You didn't turn into a lolicon even though you were exposed to "bad ideas" from manga. Your own experience proves you're wrong.
Plus, child abuse has been around since the beginning of human history, long before manga even existed. Humans have been doing bad things all by themselves, long before they even invented the language to communicate "bad ideas" to each other. Stop blaming bad ideas and instead blame bad actions.
I said people MIGHT act things out. I am not saying everyone who was exposed to the idea will act it out. And I am not agreeing nor disagreeing with the sentence this guy gets since I don't know the full details. I fully respect anybody's freedom to view any images he/she want. And I wholeheartedly disagree with prosecuting people because of their beliefs. I don't play a brother like that. Just don't put words in my mouth.
>You said it yourself. You didn’t turn into a lolicon even though you were exposed to “bad ideas” from manga. Your own experience proves you’re wrong.
Popular media of the now will always be the scapegoat for why people do stupid shit. Back in the 50s and such it was rock music. Then it was heavy metal. Now it's video games and anime. Nevermind the fact that these people have possible previous criminal records or the police find proof of mental disturbance in the forms of things like disturbing drawings or writings the criminal created, it was the damn media's fault for giving them the idea in the first place. Look at Columbine; they said it was the game Doom and such that contributed to the tragedy and it took forever to disprove because the common man was happy to have an explanation for their behavior beyond the fact that those two kids were demented monsters mentally. People can't believe we are capable of committing terrible crimes without being told by god/media/your mom to do it; we have conscience and good and evil for many reasons. If someone does something fucked up, it will eb something in there already. if they claim that god/media/your mom told them to do it, they're obviously incredibly unstable for not being able to discern a dream/a voice/fantasy from what's actually going on.
There's nothing wrong with being a lolicon or shotacon at all, unless you actually DO move on to real children. If they never do, then the world is all the better for it.
As I said, I like BDSM. Am I going to go tie people up and rape them? No, never. Yet people like you would categorize me as someone who "possible maybe could" do it because someone else did or someone in a comic did. Judge the person, not the thought or what they fap to.
>Plus, child abuse has been around since the beginning of human history, long before manga even existed.
So has everything else good and bad in history. It's terrible but it won't change anytime soon. It's just the kind of creature we are. Morality is gray, which is why we can't seem to agree on this at all.
>Stop blaming bad ideas and instead blame bad actions.
I have been. Are you even reading what I'm actually saying or just filtering out what you don't like hearing others say to make me look like the badguy?
Keep this up, I love a good debate.
>>Keep this up, I love a good debate.
And you love tearing apart inane comments about as much as I love watching you do it. ^^
*watches from the sidelines munching on popcorn*