Saki Cheating

saki-mahjong-cheating.jpg

Mahjong and occasional nopan anime Saki has been exposed as either being ignorant of the most basic rules of mahjong, or else of encouraging cheating.

Of course, an alternative possibility is that it has some extraordinarily lax quality control…

Above you can see a scene where the player in question has managed to accumulate no less than 15 tiles, a foul known as 多牌 / tahei.

Having no more or less than 14 tiles is one of the most very basic rules of mahjong, so 2ch wasted no time in scathingly proclaiming this to be “Gonzo quality.”

Even more oddly, the same error was apparently present in the manga, for which the creator apologised specifically…


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    Avatar of metatron
    Comment by metatron
    13:02 09/04/2009 # ! Neutral (0)

    Gonzo Quality lulz

    Comment by zaeris
    13:50 09/04/2009 # ! Neutral (0)

    lol, certainly not Gonzo quality if they follow the managa ^^ which made the same mistake isn't ironic. Lol, they get bash for follow or diverging away from the manga there's no sense in pleasing haters.

    Comment by Anonymous
    12:34 09/04/2009 # ! Neutral (0)

    I dunno mahjong, how can I enjoy this anime?

    Comment by Anonymous
    08:32 06/11/2010 # ! Neutral (0)

    you don't need to. It's like Yu-Gi-Oh, where if you know the game you're gonna go -.- when they pull shit out of their asses.

    Like they say, ignorance is bliss :D

    Avatar of TransistorGlamor
    Comment by ToastCrust
    07:37 09/04/2009 # ! Neutral (0)

    Like the guy above says, it seems they *all* have 14 in their regular hand (and thus, Saki has 15 during a draw phase).

    Clearly, they're playing a unique, house variant.

    Or Gonzo failed really hard.

    Avatar of Simon Jones
    Comment by Simon Jones
    08:57 09/04/2009 # ! Neutral (0)

    http://www.icaruscomics.com/13_tiles.jpg

    Ergo, Gonzo is clearly making a subtle yet poignant statement on the rat race of life, a futile struggle where victory always seems out of grasp, free will is usurped by fear, and reprieve comes only at the game's conclusion.

    Or, you know, she's simply playing not to win. Having an extra tile is the ultimate technique.

    Avatar of EndohMimi
    Comment by Mimi
    05:53 09/04/2009 # ! Neutral (0)

    I have tiles exactly like that lol.

    Whether she's cheating or not depends on the type of mahjong they're playing. In the most basic game, you have 13 tiles when not drawing.

    Avatar of b0122
    Comment by b0122
    10:48 09/04/2009 # ! Neutral (0)

    I suggest we correct the marking on the pic so that everyone's clear that the issue is Saki holding the 15th card. cuz most comments are confused.

    Comment by Anonymous
    10:20 09/04/2009 # ! Neutral (0)

    Maybe it's just some kind of homage to the original manga????

    Comment by Anonymous
    10:43 09/04/2009 # ! Neutral (0)

    I doubt it. That's like drawing 6 fingers because it was like that in the comic; it should be fixed if noticed. But yeah, these kind of misses happen a lot in mahjong comics (happened in Akagi too), so it's not something to be brooding over for the rest of the series.

    Let's just hope Gonzo realizes this and fixes it for the DVD ver, since I'm planning to buy it.

    Comment by Anonymous
    09:45 09/04/2009 # ! Neutral (0)

    It may not be "cheating" (unless you take a tile and pocket it), but it is a miss and 1) you must continue to draw and discard w/o changing hands (in other words, forfeit the game) and 2) you must pay a penalty at the end of the usually mangan.

    They are playing by the Japanese rules, which means 13 tiles + the tsumo for 14 (I've read up to the latest book). In fact, unless specifically mentioned, all mahjong manga plays under these basic rules. Local rules refer to kuitans, atozuke, red 5s and local hands, never about adding extra tiles (that gets international there). I think Gonzo just didn't realize the miss when copying the manga.

    Comment by Anonymous
    10:58 09/04/2009 # ! Neutral (0)

    AFAIK, there isn't even any international variant that allows 15. Taiwan (and, IIRC, the Philippines) play with 16+1, and everyone else in the world plays with 13+1: no one plays with 15, unless there are some weird house rules at work.

    Besides which, the manga author already acknowledged it as a mistake.

    Avatar of darknetwork
    Comment by darknetwork
    18:23 21/06/2010 # ! Neutral (0)

    OMG? REALLY!!????
    yeah so what.

    Comment by sEXY
    23:29 11/04/2009 # ! Neutral (0)

    As long it has YURI can't be fail.

    Comment by blue_blue
    15:14 13/04/2009 # ! Neutral (0)

    I'm going to watch this and skip the mahjong part.

    Comment by Anonymous
    09:26 20/03/2011 # ! Neutral (0)

    l2play, moron.
    You can have 13 tiles at a time, 14 if it's your turn.
    The only way 15 is possible is if you have a kan, which clearly isn't the case (and either way has to be declared, meaning face-up or down on the side).
    There's no way 15 can ever arise.

    Comment by Anonymous
    02:31 14/01/2014 # ! Neutral (0)

    Naw you never have 15 even with a kan. All a kan is, is removing 4 tiles from the game instead of 3, which results in a draw to go back up to 14. Of course I mean just from your hand unless you count the call board as well. Which is irrelevant since its all in her hand.

    Comment by Anonymous
    04:10 24/03/2011 # ! Neutral (0)

    Dude, take a chill-pill.
    Or go make lemonade.

    Comment by Anonymous
    02:38 14/01/2014 # ! Neutral (0)

    Nodoka is looking right at it too XD. that 15th tile doesn't really make sense in her hand too, so the author most likely just miscounted lol.

    Comment by Anonymous
    16:01 09/04/2009 # ! Neutral (0)

    Now that I'm home, I checked the comic; there is NO mistake in that scene. In fact, the angle is different: farther away, higher, looking down from the left corner of the room (far enough to where you can see the faces of the tiles). I counted; there's 12 visible with a talk bubble blocking the remaining 1 (or 2, in the comic there's no indication of whether Saki starts off as East or not). I don't know where the "same error" story came from; the only thing I can think of is the error being in the magazine Young Gan Gan, where it was later fixed in the comic book ver.

    The Japanese fans are just worried about the rest of the series, as I am too, finding a miss like this in the first ep.

    Heck, that wasn't all they messed up either though. Notice Saki's kawa (discards) right before and after Saki cuts the 3p. Before, the 2nd row was 2m, 1m, 3p. Right when she cuts the 3p, the previous discard (tile to the left) is obviously a manzu, and when Nodocchi checks, you can see the 3rd row still has only 3 tiles. So what I'm getting at here is the 3p shouldn't have been in the first shot, since Saki hasn't discarded it yet.

    But heck, I'm still looking forward to the series anyway.

    Avatar of Artefact
    Comment by Artefact
    07:40 10/04/2009 # ! Impenetrable

    It may have been corrected (perhaps you are looking at the tankobon?), though I don't know the details.

    Comment by Anonymous
    11:40 10/04/2009 # ! Neutral (0)

    Yeah, I didn't read the magazine ver. But yeah, tahai, shouhai, furiten, and the sorts happen a lot in mahjong comics; very easy for the author to accidently let things like this slip if they let their guard down.

    Now I feel a craving for some tacos.

    Comment by SaruDa
    23:50 09/04/2009 # ! Neutral (0)

    Clearly the point to be had here is that everybody knows you're not supposed to be watching a mahjong anime unless you know nothing of mahjong. Silly 2ch'ers, go back to finding panchira.

    Avatar of Narrator 1
    Comment by Narrator 1
    10:39 10/04/2009 # ! Neutral (0)

    "Holy Ra! These two are cheating... just like everyone else on this show!" -- Yami Yugi

    Comment by Anonymous
    04:04 10/04/2009 # ! Neutral (0)

    Why all the hate for channers? We're weeaboos just like you guys.

    Comment by Peanutbutter003
    05:48 09/04/2009 # ! Neutral (0)

    Very observant. I never noticed that.

    Should Gonzo be slammed for such stupidity or praised for following the manga faithfully?

    Comment by Anonymous
    01:34 09/04/2009 # ! Neutral (0)

    Having 14 tiles generally means she's EAST wind, a position that grants the player one additional tile. This is true with most versions of Mahjong, except maybe Korean, I've never played that kind.

    If you don't trust an anonymous, look up Mahjong rules (Chinese, Japanese, American, or Taiwanese Standard [all I've played]) or look up limit hands to find out you can in fact declare Mahjong on your first turn without drawing a tile it's called a "Heaven's Blessing" hand.

    Avatar of b0122
    Comment by b0122
    01:39 09/04/2009 # ! Neutral (0)

    we trust anon's knowledge we just dont trust anon's ability to read ._.

    Comment by Anonymous
    01:48 09/04/2009 # ! Neutral (0)

    Yeah, but Saki has 15 tiles in front of her in the picture.

    Comment by Anonymous
    01:55 09/04/2009 # ! Neutral (0)

    Same Anon,

    But what I meant was that you're allowed 14 tiles in your hand, if and only if you're the East wind, that 15th tile is there because this is the draw/discard phase of play and she's currently deciding whether or not to keep it or discard it. Hence why it's position is different from the other tiles.

    Avatar of b0122
    Comment by b0122
    10:45 09/04/2009 # ! Neutral (0)

    [][][] [][][] [][][] [][][] [][]

    if you can count.

    Comment by Anonymous
    02:56 09/04/2009 # ! Neutral (0)

    No, it's not possible to have 15 tiles in hand even if you tenhou. And it doesn't look like she is about to tsumo so that would be irrelevant.

    Comment by Anonymous
    02:10 09/04/2009 # ! Neutral (0)

    In Japanese Mahjong, you can't have any more than 14 tiles, period. In the opening draw, all players take 13 tiles and the East Wind takes an extra tile. East then discards, which brings him back to thirteen. If you're confused, the "fourteenth tile" is the one that you consider discarding or you can use it to complete your hand and declare "Tsumo" or "Ron".

    Comment by Anonymous
    02:35 09/04/2009 # ! Neutral (0)

    Your understanding of the rules is wrong. East starts the hand with an extra tile, but DOESN'T draw (the extra tile IS East's draw for the first turn) before discarding. No player, including East, is EVER allowed to have 15 tiles in their hand, nor even 14 except between drawing and either discarding or declaring mahjong.

    That is true of every mahjong variant that I am familiar with: Hong Kong, Chinese Classical, Western Classical, Japanese, what have you (save only that Taiwanese play with hands of 16 instead of 13).

    Comment by Anonymous
    02:01 09/04/2009 # ! Neutral (0)

    You do not get an extra tile for being east. Everyone has the same amount of tiles. It is normal for the dealer to just take their drawn tile (giving them 14 tiles) when you split up the wall. They do not then draw an extra tile on their first turn (giving them 15 tiles). I fail to see how tenhou being a yakuman leads you to believe east gets 15 tiles.

    Comment by tylon
    01:25 09/04/2009 # ! Neutral (0)

    Very observant. I just took it for granted that it should be 14. Generally, a player should have 13 tiles at hand. However, 14 tiles at hand will happen in between draw phrase and discard phrase (another situation will be the end-game condition)

    At first, I thought it was some photo edit (sorry for doubting this info).

    They need to do some thing on this issue in the DVD release. That is a quality control issue. 1st episode only, tired already? They must have drawn too many tiles.

    Avatar of b0122
    Comment by b0122
    01:31 09/04/2009 # ! Neutral (0)

    and the mahjong are digital 3D graphics.

    Comment by cobol
    01:35 09/04/2009 # ! Neutral (0)

    Another boring new :D

    Comment by Anonymous
    01:25 09/04/2009 # ! Neutral (0)

    Umm... with a girl about to suck a banana, who would be counting tiles?

    :)

    Avatar of Deviant Discordian
    Comment by Deviant Discordian
    02:06 09/04/2009 # ! Neutral (0)

    It's a taco actually.

    Comment by zeroryoko1974
    02:20 09/04/2009 # ! Neutral (0)

    she shall be known as loltacofang from now on

    Comment by Anonymous
    19:20 09/04/2009 # ! Neutral (0)

    tacos are horselicious

    Avatar of acesofthesky
    Comment by Ace
    00:53 09/04/2009 # ! Neutral (0)

    Guess whether they would apologize too.

    Comment by Anonymous
    00:53 09/04/2009 # ! Neutral (0)

    O RLY?

    YA RLY!

    Comment by Anonymous
    07:21 09/04/2009 # ! Neutral (0)

    You're already dead.

    Comment by Anonymous
    12:56 26/09/2009 # ! Neutral (0)

    I'm not dead!

    Avatar of Geerie
    Comment by Geerie
    Avatar of Artefact
    Comment by Artefact

    Go back to 4chan if this is the best you can manage.

    Avatar of Chris
    Comment by Chris
    11:45 09/04/2009 # ! Neutral (0)

    First off, somehow doubt Artefact himself posts links to sancom on 4chan. Probably random f/a/gs.

    Second, whether it's linked or not, 4chan isn't sancom's only source of users. I wouldn't even say a sizable source of users.

    tl;dr feeding the troll

    Avatar of b0122
    Comment by b0122
    10:42 09/04/2009 # ! Neutral (0)

    well you showed up, 1 point for SanCon.

    Avatar of motaku96
    Comment by motaku96
    10:41 09/04/2009 # ! Neutral (0)

    Don't you dare insult Artefact or SanCon....you....you...SCOUNDREL!

    Comment by ManaYagami
    02:37 11/04/2009 # ! Neutral (0)

    I found it through a link on /b/ and I decided to follow it, since it's not only informative, but entertaining, either on the way that the articles are presented or through the pictures used on the article itself. Besides, there are a lot of comments at the level of the typical 4chan Anonymous around here and a lot of other sites and I doubt that their authors ever went there, but there is also the possibility that they are trolls waiting to be feed.

    Comment by Anonymous
    23:07 09/04/2009 # ! Neutral (0)

    Hey, I actually found about this site from /a/ - even if it is constantly being bad mouthed there.

    Comment by Anonymous
    04:12 09/04/2009 # ! Neutral (0)

    stop linking to your shitty blog on 4chan and you can enjoy no one even coming here anymore if thats what you want.





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