China Pirates Train
- Categories: International, News
- Date: Mar 19, 2009 07:25 JST
- Tags: Bizarre, China, Copyright, Made in China, Shanghai, Trains
Chinese companies are coming under fire for piracy on an impressive scale, after it emerges that their new flagship high-speed rail system, which they proudly claim “utilises 100% Chinese owned intellectual property”, is actually designed by German and French companies (Siemens and Alstom).
China is even apparently exporting trains made with the designs, despite it being licensed for use only in China.
The CEO of Alstom is said to be enraged, and has sharply criticised the companies involved.
The controversy relates to the construction of a modern high-speed railway system around Shanghai, where the group of Chinese companies are procuring 100 of the trains, which are manufactured domestically, but use non-Chinese designs and intellectual property.
The Chinese side now claims the trains are “100%” Chinese designed and manufactured, and seems to think it owns all the technology employed.
The background to the case is huge demand for new railways within China, with some 5 trillion yuan earmarked for much needed infrastructural improvements.
Just importing the trains, or even building them domestically, is not enough however; lately ever increasing proportions of “domestically designed” parts are also being sought in the projects.
Via Record China.
As usual with foreign partnerships in China, the foreign partner is expected to train and equip its future Chinese competitor, and with such weak rule of law there is little recourse for companies not well connected to Party networks when these arrangements go awry.
French, German and Japanese companies will likely be wondering if their deals will have the desired outcome after all with this news…
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Remember what a simple chinese chair can do? I wonder what a chinese train is capable of...
collapsing into pieces while in motion
At least, China is better than Indonesia which even can't realize anything about transportation quality...
Agreed
I know what you mean. Each bus is a moving deathtrap
"which they proudly claim “utilises 100% Chinese owned intellectual property”, is actually designed by German and French companies (Siemens and Alstom)."
I find that a rather odd statement; during the media coverage of the Olympics, it was mentioned numerous times (on Australian TV at least) that the trains were of German design... I suppose the "proudly Chinese" part is just what they were saying domestically.
not surprising if it comes from China
I'm from germany and my uncle is or better yet was employed at Siemens. He has even been one of the leading managers in a Siemens project to build a single track and equip the chinese with a number of trains to run it. unfortunatly i cant recall where exactly in china that was. But what i'm trying to say is that this project was finally finished in 2007 after some problems with what both parties thought to be the duties of the other one according to the contract.
with that in mind it seems like quite a coincidence that they are introducing "their" newest technology right now. But at least in germany this is no big news. for years we've been hearing stories of ripped off technology and patents coming from china and the rather dubious ways the intellectual property got into chinese hands. there are even some rumors that every single case was encouraged or arranged by the chinese government.
Although i wouldnt wanna go as far as to make such accusations without any solid evidence.
O!! it's not that bad. I bet all the parts that the Germans used to build the train were made in China.
Anyway we know that anything highly technological the Chinese built usually brakes up, so if you want some technological big project built perfectly there are two kind of people you can call. The Germans because they are perfectionists and the Japanese because they are really smart little bastards that never rest. The French are there because they have good trains also in this case.
The Chinese really hate Japanese so they called the Germans. Love there thinking.
That's like taking a screenshot from an anime, saying you drew it, and then trying to copyright it.
Unlimited Copy Works, at full strength, coming straight at you.
what's next? space shuttle?
oh good grief china *facepalm*
Isn't this a good chance for Nintendo, Sony and Microsoft to sue China for pirating their consoles and "invented" the Chintendo Vii, Polystation 3 and the X-box362? Kinda wonder why they didn't do the same thing like how these Germans did..
paper first show up in China. bomb first show in China.etc. whithout pirate these, u guys r still at the stone age.
Awesome, IP are stupid anyway, lets all copy stuff from each other so it is all fair.
made in china = high possibility of phail =P
Will we hear an occuring accident with this kind of train more later in China? Even if there's deaths their government won't give a damn...
thats going to derail then it comes to the corners
sheesh china really sucks bad now they keep pirating from other countries and saying thye amd it by the way i'm chinese also by grandfather's blood. there gonna feel sorry later on when no one wants to sell them there new stuff.
I thought this was talking about the Shanghai Maglev train. That was explicitly designed by the Germans..
sheesh china really sucks mow, i'm chinese by blood by the way they keep pirating then saying we made it, china's gonna feel very sorry next time when no one wants to sell them stuffs.
fuckin chinese
Actually, aside from French, Japanese, & German company, even the Russian government are frustrated with China due to China reverse-engineering the fighter jets without their permission & then sold it to the other countries. It start off with purchases of jets, ten after halfway the Chinese gov stops the purchase saying that the jets doesn't met their requirements. Turns out they clone it, & when confronted, said that the're making readjustment to the jets.
You can find this info in Russia Today / English Russia, & thought the webs contains a bit of propaganda, I believe the Russian more than the Chinese. I just can't stand materealistic culture, you know. Disgust me.
when it's gonna explode?
"which they proudly claim 'utilises 100% Chinese owned intellectual property'"
Saying, 'this train uses 100% Chinese owned IP' is not the same as saying, '100% of this train is Chinese owned IP.' For example, Mitsubishi has provided CPU components to Dodge vehicles. It's not incorrect for them to state that a Jeep Cherokee uses 100% Japanese IP. It would be incorrect for them to state that 100% of the Jeep Cherokee is Japanese IP.
I haven't seen China make a claim suggesting that the trains are exclusively their design and their IP. The wording is tricky and likely deliberate. I'm sure that the CEO of Alstom is enraged. It's more than a bit ungracious for China to position themselves to take all of the credit for something that was a joint effort; however, it's not patently false, at least from what I've seen so far.
funny how people believe 100% of what they read on sankaku. that is what you call ignorance or stupidity.
For those wondering about the trains in question, they are:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Pendolino
And the Chinese clone:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/China_Railways_CRH5
ive never seen so many ignorant racist assholes posts in my life. some of you are fucking racist assholes. ppl like you are fucked up and a waste of life on this world.
I hope you all die for your racists behavior. fucking supremacists. Pretty sure the host of this website is racist too, specially to chinese it would seem.
Well well well. For those who claim that Chinese hi-tech goods are easy to break: what if I tell you that almost all nokia phones, including the most high-end smartphones, are made in China.
Stop making unjustified claims people.
HAH
I just knew frenc htechnologies were superior XD
You wouldn't download a train
I would, if I could ;_;
Sure, the IP protection have gone to an extreme with DRM, various lawsuit tactics (threaten to sue, injunctions and etc.) and etc. etc. It's a result of of corporate greed, and one should pause for reflection on the damage done when rapacity dominates.
Nevertheless, the basic principle of IP should still stand - that one should be rewarded for their labour - the idea should be learned, otherwise, let us just wait until PRC come up with some nice gear, then we copy it and they can't say shitz about it because it's just exactly what they have done.
Ah yes, another form of piracy, this time, the Chinese decides to copy a train..I wonder, what's next...airplane?
What is it with the Chinese and pirating evvvveeeeeerrrrryyyy thing
their laws are so slack for a country that could do wonders
IP is monopoly. I don't think they 'copy' it. The design is not exactly the same right?? I presume (I hvnt see the real pic for german design)
swiping some shit and calling it yours IS the greatest form of flattery
That's imprissive, stealing a whole train.
I take that back. what was impressive. the USSR stealing the B29. now that was impressive
The USSR stealing the US Space Shuttle and rebranding it as "Buran". Now that's impressive.
also the Concord and some think the Avro Arrow too lol
No.
USSR was first to design and develop the world's first supersonic transport aircraft (Tu-144)
point is....
every country has its own dirt in their eyes that they cannot notice.
No.
The Buran may look like the Space Shuttle on the outside, but was much bigger, and had much better performance.
Similar to this is the Tu-160, which looks like a B-1, but is much larger and more capable.
Orientals are really good at copying.
Japan copied everything from the US after WW2
Korea followed suit in the 90s-2000
Now it's china's turn on a massive scale.
America used to pirate European books wholesale.
AND STILL DO~~!
Go back to Stormfront, faggot.
Bad for the original owners but China won't mind cause this just accelerates the closing of their technological gap with most competitors.
Siemens is not known to be making smart decisions, rather the management decides whatever earns them the most money until their contract expires.
Tourist: "I wanna ride that thing! Then again.. it's china made, 100%, was it? never mind.. I'd feel SO much safer if the technology at least is imported, from german, for example.."
I wonder if the chinese knew that their stuff means "cheap crap" on global scale?
I'm sure they are well aware... that their stuff means "cheap crap" on global scale that people can't get enough of.
The Chinese can develop jet engines matching the latest Russian offerings, but they needed to copy this train?
What was this train carrying, alien technology?
No, they copy from Russian Tumanskii.
It's got worse that Russia won't even ship Sukhoi Su-33s jets to china anymore.
Not alien technoloy, but ... TGV s actually the faster rail train.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/6521295.stm
Well, things are escalating...
It's not wonder with such a piracy culture and a country that is evolving technologically that things like that happens.
Soon enough, China will be stealing all sorts of intelectual property from other countries to make their own version.
And the only reason why most people won't accept their pirated versions is because they are usually cheaply made, and awful if compared to the original.
But if they continue evolving their process, with cheap labor and all they'll eventually get closer to the original in quality.
Then my friends, we'll have a situation that could even escalate to war.
Because you can toy around with lots of small brand names and corporations, or you can toy around with one or another big corporation, but if you start messing with lots of big corporations than things will get ugly.
Money is what moves the world, for good or specially, for bad.
A more plausible scenario:
China develops rapidly somewhat further, and eventually manages to develop technology that is marketable. However, nobody respects their IP until they crack down on their own pirates, damaging their growth. Thus economic development will force them to play by the rules at some point, just as other developing countries have (eg. Japan - now developed).
yeah, actually it's a problem already discussed(or ive seen discussed) thousands of times here in china forums,,,
for example,
almost all the single-player-game production companies went bankrupt in mainland because of piracy(especially when use of BT was popularized),, since 2002 (or later if my memory serves me right), you cant find any chinese developed single player games. They either closed or changed to produce softwares or MMORPG or anyhing else,,,
we cant help but start to wonder, till when will we need some real money when we want to play new pc games or to download the newest hollywood movie in BDrip or to listen to some new released albums of xxx or to read the new best seller or,,to install the newest Windows?
LOL
I applaud the Chinese for their ingenuity. The basic principle for all advancement is building off the back of other's labor and claiming it as your own while dodging their attempts to collect on it.
Why it wasn't that long ago that our very own early Hollywood was doing the same when they stole the blueprints to many of Thomas Edison's patents to produce their own products under their names under the guise of the technology belonging to them in order to escape the possibility of paying royalties.
Japan did exactly the same sort of thing in the pre- and post-war period. Still, if you're losing money from it, you may as well try to stop it.
True, however, to be truly epic, China must not pirate like others have pirated before, but take it to a legally deniable, cock-blocking new level.
And srsly, I think that most people here would mind if piracy laws were enforced everywhere.
Also, WTF is with the first pic? Initially, I assumed China either reverse-engineered a French TGV or epic airlift-pirated one, until I took a better look at it.
A Question to everyone, would you pay a plus 20% on everything if it weren't made by china? An other way to end this is non-existant.
They sure won't suddenly stop copying and selling these, especially as copying is sort of cultural to them.
Those chinks have no bounds...
Chinks even steal and copy Russian military hardware. Russia is tired or it.
Hmm, for some reason the J-8 (which essentially is the Chinese bastard child of a MiG-21 and a MiG-23) is my favorite communist fighter plane. I so wish to see a Chun-Li Ita-J-8 someday...
fucking ignorant fucks are at it again.. racial slurs aren't welcome bitches.
sensitive faggots aren't either
Actually bitches with no sensitivity aren't either.
fucking gooks are at it again...
Feed the troll!
I was JUST about to say that
Jesus Christ, China... What the fuck are you thinking over there? O_o
If you're going to use racist slang at least get the country right.
Wow...looks like the insecure racist fuck-ups are at it again. Go back to 4chan.
On another note; seriously it's no surprise anymore lol. It's as much as I'm used to bizzare hentai crimes in Japan. Still for a train?
Wiki for the win ^^
Impressive etymology description there
Gook is a derogatory term for Asians, used especially for enemy soldiers. Its use as an ethnic slur has been traced to U.S. Marines serving in the Philippines in the early 20th century. The earliest recorded use is dated 1920. Prior to the Vietnam War (1965–73), "gook" was U.S. soldiers' jargon used to refer to any non-American.
A slang dictionary published in 1893 defines "gook" as "a low prostitute." Marines fighting in the Philippine–American War and the Moro Rebellion used the word to refer to Filipinos. This alteration of meaning may reflect contempt for native women and an accusation of promiscuity. Early usage may have been influenced by the word "goo goo" or "gugu," also applied to Filipinos by the Marines. "Gugu" originated as a mocking imitation of Filipino speech. (Compared to "barbarian".)"The Marines who occupied Nicaragua in 1912 took to calling the natives gooks, one of their names for Filipinos," according to H. L. Mencken. In 1920, U.S. Marines in Haiti were using the term to refer to Haitians. In Frank Capra's Flight (1929), the word was used by a U.S. Marine stationed in Nicaragua. It was later used in the Korean War movie The Steel Helmet (1951) as well as in numerous movies and books depicting the Vietnam War.
In the U.S., "gook" refers most particularly to Communist soldiers in the context of the Vietnam War. It is generally considered highly offensive, on a par with nigger. In a highly publicized incident, Senator John McCain used the word to refer to his former captors, then apologized to the Vietnamese community at large. "I hate the gooks. I will hate them as long as I live…I was referring to my prison guards and I will continue to refer to them in language that might offend."
A folk etymology suggests that during the Korean War, Korean children would point at U.S. soldiers and shout "미국" (mee-guk), the Korean word for "America." Soldiers heard the word as "me gook," as if the children were defining themselves as "gooks." This explanation ignores the fact that there are many examples of the word's use that pre-date the Korean War.
The word was applied to insurgents by Rhodesian soldiers during the Rhodesian Bush War (1964–1979). In 2003, The Gook, a Vietnam War painting by Roger Shimomura, was displayed at the Greg Kucera Gallery in Seattle.
vietnamese
what the hell is gooks?
You stupid limeys don't even know how to swear.
Fool. Nobody in the UK calls other people gooks. It's a solely american word.
Remember, usually racists are also mentally challanged and has a very hard time using any cognitive abilities. Weaboos and Japanophiles on the other hand are just insecure and in denial. Filled with delusions of grandure.
Indeed it is haha. I got to proof read my own comments more often.
And it's "grandeur", not "grandure".
Weeaboo, not weaboo... Why the hell do people have such a hard time using the word properly?
Does it really matter? Hell, its not even a proper word, try finding it in a dictionary. You get the point anyway.
Lol I'm sorry Bastille my bad. If you seen some of my other comments, I usually spell it right.
Hello Yank.
lol...American Southerners that know what the North did during the "Civil" War particularly find being referred to as "Yank" or "Yankee" as offensive, or War of Northern Aggression as some would refer to it. I don't know if Northerners also find it distasteful to be referred to as such. Indeed it also refers to Japanese punks and as of yet I don't know why.
now why are we talking about japanese punks?
I love that way of handling racist terms.
God bless the day a black basketballteam, or some african team adopts the word Nigger.
Like "The Niggers" in a self ironic proud way.
Or the day some mexican team name themself "The Beaners".
Or an Arab team name itself "Dune Cooners".
The power of having some self irony in life trumps racism. Once the world grows older, we'll realise that :)
Northerners could care less about being called a "Yank" or "Yankee". If anything it's a sense of pride. Even named a baseball team after it.
^ Lol how2racist.
Taking credit for somebody else's work is not right. That's all I have to say.
What's the source of the first pic?
I first thought it was a photo, but it's actually a quite impressive drawing...
http://www.pixiv.net/member_illust.php?mode=medium&illust_id=2311567
probably one of those train sim games
a pirated one, LOL!
Agreed- though I thought someone shopped in a girl at first^^
Why the hell can't China just make its own goddamn stuff? D:
"why the hell can't China just invent its own goddamn stuff? :D"
There fixed and made happier.
they already make #2 pencils and everything is made by them already D:
Sweet comeback.