A federal appeals panel has upheld the 20 year sentence of a lolicon found to have received illustrations of underage sex by email, saying that “it is not a required that the minor depicted actually exists”, and so ruling art not to be universally protected free speech.
The court also insisted that purely textual email containing incest related material was not constitutionally protected free speech, and so also upheld his conviction on these grounds.
The man concerned (55), a resident of Richmond, Virginia, is serving a 20 year sentence after being convicted in 2005 of “receiving 20 Japanese cartoons, called anime, illustrating young girls being forced to have sex with men”, which he rather unwisely received using a public computer at the Virginia Employment Commission.
Additionally, he was found to have sent and received incest related emails of a purely textual nature, which were judged to be obscene and therefore not constitutionally protected free speech.
Clouding the issue further, the man apparently also received unambiguously illegal photographs of underage sexual conduct.
All this resulted in a jury convicting him of 74 offences, including receiving obscene materials, receiving obscene visual representations of underage sex, receiving child pornography and sending and receiving obscene emails. His sentence of 20 years was the maximum possible.
The notorious PROTECT Act of 2003, which permits arbitrarily stripping material of its First Amendment protections if it can be judged obscene according to the criteria of the Miller Test, was instrumental in securing these convictions; in fact this represents the first successful conviction under it.
In his appeal against the convictions, he claimed that the illustrations were protected by the First Amendment, as they do not depict real children. He also claimed the PROTECT Act was unconstitutional as textual emails cannot be considered obscene.
The judges would have none of it, holding that the act was made for the protection of imaginary children:
“It is not a required element of any offense under this section that the minor depicted actually exists.”
One of the three judges did accept his arguments, though this had no impact on the majority ruling. The convictions for the photographs did not come into question.
The man intends to continue elevating the appeal, to the Supreme Court if necessary, in order to get the relevant parts of his conviction quashed.
It is not his first brush with the law: in 1999 he was sentenced to nearly four years for possessing pornography depicting minors, so clearly he is not the most charismatic appellant.
This via AP, brought to my attention in the forums.
The PROTECT Act of late seems to be coming to the fore in relation to cases involving loli manga; there is also the recent case of an Iowa man facing similar convictions, although in his case without any real imagery involved.
Given that so much anime and manga, both mainstream and erotic, revolves around sexual situations involving participants clearly under what US law would regard as a legal age for such depictions to not constitute child pornography, just how much of mainstream anime and manga, to say nothing of actual pornography, will eventually come under the remit of such laws should they go unchecked?
With lower courts and national politicians gleefully stripping both speech and art of Constitutional protections using the evils of underage sex as a lever, we have to wonder whether the Supreme Court will actually rectify matters at some point?
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If the judge's argument is that there is no requirements for the minor to exist, then who is the one being protected as the result of the conviction? Wouldn't that be a contradiction?
If any anime enthusiast is arrested, I think it is best if Anonymous made a go at the supreme court rather than Scientology.
I actually thing that the real reason why lolicon possession is still viewed as a "serious" offence is because the old judges probably never owned a computer or understood the internet. Keyword: old ignorant people. They really need to lurk moar to be less ignorant of the fact that millions of anime enthusiasts had at least seen, viewed, or possessed lolicon material. (That, and those who viewed would still be charged as a result of forensic hard drive investigations).
Younger kids and mainstream audiences who are regulars to the internet would have agreed that 20 years is too much; if possession of lolicon is the only charge. We need to keep up with the times. If the law fails to keep up with current ideals, then it is a failed legal system. It has failed the requirement for social progress.
more scenario to add to my yet to be made manga :D
zetsubou zetsubou no sekai
DAMN i came in here trying to check out this retarded shit and i end up finding fucking ppl writing essays
This convo has sunk to a new low, thanks to you Narcissist. I can't even bear to read all the BS comments about you....
Okay, so what do I care about this? Nothing. I don't live in America so it doesn't involve me. Whatever happens in America stays in America......
Ever hear of UNICEF? They are run by Americans, amongst others.
http://www.sankakucomplex.com/2008/11/27/unicef-japanese-anime-manga-poison-the-world/
USA is SUCKS
I live in the USA. It does indeed suck.
Here's a thought that may be out there a bit:
If imaginary loli has human rights, does that mean they're considered actual people too?
I mean, how long before some ronery individual (ex: otaku) adds two and two and actually goes out to get matching wedding bands for himself and his favorite anime/manga/eroge character? Blood tests? Invitations for the ceremony? Joint checking accounts? You see where I'm taking this? How far does the stupidity go?
This is an issue I'll await lulz from as much as frustration.
You think too conservatively:
http://www.sankakucomplex.com/2008/10/29/otaku-demand-right-to-wed-2d-characters/
http://www.sankakucomplex.com/2008/12/27/marry-your-16-figures-%E2%80%93-engagement-rings-for-sale/
Seems I was wrong. Some idiot(s) *have* gone that far already. XD
it is probable that he brought forth his arguement under the wrong section of the law ...therefore they don't deem the fact that the child 'does not exist, as relavent to his argument of free speech...he needs to take this statement , by the judges , as a hint as to 'HOW TO APPROACH AND HOW HAS ' his rights been CONSTITUTIONALLY violated when he APPEALS to a HIGHER court , but it still doesn't justify the idiotic statement by the court , defending the protection of IMAGINARY CHILDREN..
FUCK YEAH!!!! im suing fosters home for imaginary friends because the i imagined the friend i pretended to aquire from them touched me funny.
Any criminalisation of purely fictional material is disgusting, fascist bullshit. The only reason they are getting away with this is because most people go through life wearing blinders, preventing them from seeing what's right next to them.
Maybe you find loli hentai icky, but plenty of people share the same views about games like GTA, or COD. Should they also be locked up because innocent fictional people were harmed?
It's absolutely anti-thesis to everything a liberal, free society should be. You people pointing and sneering are the stupidest of all, because you dumb fucks think you are safe because the otaku community considers your porn of choice adult. I guarantee you that the moral witch-hunters don't, they will tar you will the pedophile label and have you put in jail for life quicker than you can fucking blink.
They love the power they have, and they won't stop as long as they still garner support from the 'missionary position with the light off' shitheads.
Fuck, I hate the real world so much...
All internet data centers must we moved to Easter Island LOL
Not4chan in the exile
so if i live in America and i draw 2 stick figures having sex and state that one is 15 and the other is 40, i mail this to a friend. Do i go to Jail then?
lol @ USA
A lesser nation... let me think... China? Cuba? Or some other country where legal system is not a joke, but a fantasy? Countries where you would get your ass in jail before you know that you can defend yourself in court? Or countries where the legal system is so corrupted when you can get away with murder"s", not to mention pedophilia... I think people in America is very lucky. It's not propaganda, since most of you complaining about America's legal system clearly have not lived in the other parts of the world, where people are actually starving, new vocab guys! STARVE!!!
I'm not the most law-minded American citizen, but since when is obscenity illegal? If you're legitimately harming someone, that's one thing, but if it's just words and [drawn] images being passed between consenting adults, then where's the harm? If you prohibit the creation, existence, or willing possession of such material, then you're prohibiting thought itself.
VA? Yeah, there's places you can't buy beer, teach evolution, dance with people of the same sex, or open your business on Sunday in VA, this will get overturned somewhere up the line.
I wonder if it's time to destroy the world already...or god will be a little bit more patient and give those idiots time to reconsider their laws?
I wonder if I should pray for the world to be a better place or give up hope and wish for the destruction of it instead?
believe it or not I actually think like that, sometimes...
i agree
that is it!
i am officially moving to japan!
may america burn in hell or global warming
If he's this dumb, putting him behind bars is a benefit to society.
WHAT THE F...
illustrations? text messages?
btw people, aren't you all over reacting with the europe vs america vs whatever thing?
Whorley case is old news. The man involved was a legitimate pedophile. Let's see what happens when the line becomes blurrier, such as in this pending case. http://www.cbldf.org/pr/archives/000372.shtml
We haven't covered it so actually it is new news.
And we've already dealt with the other case:
http://www.sankakucomplex.com/2008/10/24/american-faces-20-years-over-loli-manga/
You guys are pissed because a judge is finally doing something to take away your fake pedophile shit.
Your kind can have whatever bad luck falls on you.
However I do see the point that art and fictional material that depict crimes being enacted shouldn't be actuall crimes for possessing them.
How many "snuff" films do people watch? Saw, etc...
I guess we should make imaginary snuff films also illegal and everyone who watched Saw should be arrested.
Regardless, the important thing is... we all know Narcissist is an angry pedophile now.
That is all.
can't disagree with this :D
well, its our nature to support our hobby/habit, therefore, we are fake pedophile narcisist
so what? it doesn't hurt anybody, why are you americans keep nagging our ass for being a fake pedophile fan?
and you guys fine with gore & bloods?
1 thing i realize of what we are as living things
we are sick
That is exactly what the conviction on the email charge means, yes.
I'm not joking.
If you are an American, you need to contact the ACLU about this and state your concerns.
I'm not joking.
I swear.... when are people going to realize that there is nothing wrong with lolicon or even pedosexuality. When their children start killing them in order to protect their lovers, as was done back in the day?
God thank i dont live in that shithole called Amerika.
The country gets stupid by the day
This is completely ridiculous for the simple reason that the Supreme Court already ruled on a case exactly like this in 2004.
If possesing hentai becomes a capital offense, the I would gladly give of my life for freedom
"The judges would have none of it, holding that the act was made for the protection of imaginary children:
“It is not a required element of any offense under this section that the minor depicted actually exists.” "
What in the world?
Additionally, The United States are no longer about liberty and freedom. Lol at a first amendment wich has 'unless' tied to it.
What's next? Anything depicting the government as bad will be considered obscene?
I'm sure no one is reading this thread any more but I just thought I'd point out the average sentence for actual molestation of minors--you know, using your real parts on real kids--runs about 7 years, unless it is pretty egregious. Out on parole after 3 is not uncommon.
So the solution here is simple--don't download loli hentai, get out there and go after some real kids and save yourself some jail time!
So, let me get this straight. There doesn't have to be a crime for you to be convicted?
why do ppl go to jail for loli, i heard you can get caught easyer in verginia and texas... but so far in michigan. no one in michigan... loli isnt viewd as cp there. im glad to be a michiganian.
The protect act is not worth the paper it's printed one.
BTW dear moral fags since this guy can be jailed for up to 20 years have any idea how much this will cost tax payers?
Since more fags typically have the glial cell count of a lemur and thus are incapable of counting I'll do the math for any reading this on average a year in the pen is $21,000 to $36,000 USD.
That's $420,000 to $720,000 USD it will cost tax payers to punish this person for the horrible crimes of offending your morals and god.
how can the age of a drawing be determined. My girlfriend is 19 and consistently says, "I wish I didn't look like I was 12." She has been offered the kids menu at restaurants before when she can legally buy cigarettes :P.
They still haven't banned summer blockbusters and horror films for depicting fictional people getting killed in more than many ways.
Well the dumbfuck was using a public computer to receive his crap.
Dumbass mistake number 1
He also received real, ILLEGAL photographs of underagers
It's the nail to the coffin. Fat bastard deserved that one.
Obvious pedo is obvious.
Imaginationland.... ImAginAtionLand .... must protect our imagination or our brains will fry !
I just don't get why you can actually get arrested for having lolicon manga. I hear people get really angry with others for just saying they've seen it before. I've seen people threaten to call the police just for saying "My friend has some." I just don't get it.
Where's phoenix wright when you need him?
“It is not a required element of any offense under this section that the minor depicted actually exists.”
So then I guess the great majority of the art world are murderers and hardened criminals. Then shouldn't Edgar Allen Poe gets slapped with a animal cruelty and Sir Aurthur Conan Doyle gets hit with federal drug charges?
They'll never see how insane this is.
@Narcissist.
Dude just chill authority figures will always come by this because they want to protect children from future you know who's. In retrospect it's illegal in almost every country I think because of the protection, but that doesn't mean we can't continue to read those types of manga in the comfort of our own home. Not like we otakus are going to do anything bad right? So I guess enjoy it while it lasts =).
watch out everyone. you may be guilty of crimes against imaginary people!
I have lost all faith in humanity that I had left. God help us all.
So what's next, going to jail for thinking about it?
YES! You will be caught by your body language and eye movement, use of hands, etc. so determined by leading Phsy-Religious authorities.
Enter the thought crime.
fucking retards, those judges must be jews!
I have tons of lolicon manga, and I share it all over the nets!
catch me fuckers! they are fucking cartoons, idiots, try to judge some criminals and stop losing time with non sense problems
LOLI FTW!
btw...what would happen if I walk around USA with a lolicon T-Shirt?
Matters what's on the shirt...if it just say's LOLICON then nothing. If it has a picture of loli's naked probably something. If it says lolicon and has a pic of a loli in clothes...nothing
first of all you are all pedophiles. you may say you arent and you state you never touch kids well what do you think lolicon is. its created after child porn was banned in japan. its a way of giving pedophiles what they want. get it? they look like kids and are small compared to the men that rape them. its sick,. its legal way of getting your child porn with out going to jail. and its a cowardly thing to do. you pedophiles are sick and twisted. hiding behind art please you dont know anything about art(art major here). you get off by looking at a toon that looks physically like a child and that makes you a pedophile. get it. admit it already. lolicon equals child porn. and what about toddlercon is that acceptable too are you not sick fucks because they are toons. you are sick and no child porn is okay. junior idols are also not okay. you fucking bastards. pedophilia is nasty and you are all pedophiles.
ಠ_ಠ
What. The. Hell.
...
......
There goes the first amendment. FWOOOOOOOOOOOoo-
Look. Most of the people on this site are not interested in Pedophilia. I will sum this up in three words.
Freedom. Of. Speech.
The explanation of the words: In this world of ULTRA SOFT BUNNYZ, it is hard to tell the difference between fantasy and reality. So they eliminate your freedom of media depiction. Anime is not real. Lolicon is not real. You are not a child defender. You are a nutjob. Learn to spell, use capitalization, and stop trying to be a troll. I am sick of hypocrisy, good sir. Shut The Fuck Up and Get The Fuck Out.
Oh, and does playing a violent video game make you a psychopath? I didn't think so.
*lights cigarette*
I suppose no one has replied to you because feeding the trolls is wrong, but I'm tempted (even though I don't even like lolis, lol) so...
OK, so what if they're disgusting and wrong to you? So what if they DO have mental problems? (I'm not saying lolicons are/do, this is hypothetical). A lot of people who aren't lolicons/pedophiles have the same problem. Millions. Some people have imaginary friends, some people pick their nose. Hell, I think it's nasty that there's millions of people who wipe their ass instead of wash it. Should they all be prosecuted just because you and others like you deem them as unfit? They aren't doing anything wrong to you, anyone else, or actual minors, so the only reason you have is that you think they're nasty or messed in the head... which aren't very good reasons.
BTW, I've seen people here admit that they're pedos, if that's all you're after. But that doesn't mean they're molesters/rapists or that they have/will do harm to any minors. They understand what the word means, unlike most people.
ಠ_ಠ
This is a declaration of war against the Internet.
WE MUST PREPARE TO FIGHT!!
Narcissist, you're quite obviously not better than anyone, except maybe your average retard, but I still have more respect for them than you. They're not amazingly ingnorant/racist, afterall.
By the way, if you're gonna try to be racist to me (and I couldn't care less), you're gonna have to take a guess at where I'm from. It's not America, either.
Back on topic; even though I quite clearly hate what they've done (if I didn't, I wouldn't be on this site), you have to realise that what they did isn't stupid. People tend to be scared of the unknown, and since I really doubt they've ever looked at Loli, they have no idea how it really is. The reason this guy is in jail is most likely because they were afraid that if they let him go, he'd just eventually become a pedo. As well as making them look bad, they most likely didn't want someone to actually become a victim of this. And since a lot of people here are racist idiots who don't understand other cultures, Loli isn't accepted everywhere. So it's accepted in Japan? Big deal. Why should other countries change their views if they dislike something just because a few people in their country like it?
According to UNICEF and most western governments, Japan had better change its ways because they don't like them.
Otaku: Doesn't my figure Haruhi look hawt and cute?
UNICEF: So you want to marry her? You're sick, she's NOT even real.
Otaku: *Accidentally revealed his loli collections*
UNICEF: What are these!!? These are Child Pornographies!!
Otaku: No, they're just imaginary and they have nothing to do with any real children..
UNICEF: We have to arrest you. These are as REAL as Child Pornographies, even if the victims don't exist at all!!
Epic Win.
“It is not a required element of any offense under this section that the minor depicted actually exists.”
So they're essentially saying that there does not need to be a victim for a crime to have taken place. One can be a murder without having killed anybody, and a rapist without having touched anyone. Welcome to the wonderful world of thought crimes, where it doesn't matter if you did any harm; it's enough if you had a wrong thought.
The human race is over, let it die off.
This is Beyond lame, and I really hope the law gets struck down in the supreme court, the maw is there to protect real children, not imaginary ones, and by making imaginary ones illegal, you would think it might instead end up causing them to go after real children.
While otakus watching loli get arrested, REAL pedophiles get to out of court free! Isn't that great! We now get to see what was once America get swirled down a FUCKING TOILET!! SON OF A BITCH!
GRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGH!
Reminds me that I need to renew my CBLDF membership...
Indeed. Not only do you have this crappy excuse of a law screwing over a "lolicon," you got Mr. Handley of Iowa getting charged for obscenity just because someone in customs at the post office thought some guys in yaoi manga in "certain acts" looked like they were under 18! There are two ways to stop this B.S. is 1) support the CBLDF and/or mosh on D.C. and demand that these laws be rewritten or every single one of these people in Congress who would dare to defend this "PROTECT Act" as it stands be recalled, and the FCC be reformed.
Well well well soon in America thinking will be forbidden too Americans must really start thinking about what future holds for them they will become slaves ripped from the freedom of thinking wtf its just like some kind of movie people getting forced to think as the government want them to think.
wait for the brain chips lol
Ugh... I only blame the guy for 2 things, if he had real child porn, and for being caught...
"Raaa! This is a insult to lolicons, we must unite in armed intervention! Desu~"
Couldn't agree more, regardless if it was a serious statement or not.
Icy was clearly referring to the use of highly advanced mobile suits to carry out said armed intervention... which means this is all very srs bsns.
THIS IS MADNESS!!!
No,
THIS IS SPARTA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
(obligatory, you understand...)
John Lennon made people imagine
Imagine there's no John Lennon
It's easy if you try
Because he's dead
I don't really get how the Protect Act really protects children. What exactly are we protecting when we spend absurd amounts of money prosecuting a guy (not this guy but the Iowan man) for having some hand-drawn gay porn. When this money can be spent on nabbing real criminals. No offense to Australians but I think the US is coming close to eclipsing them in terms if idiot criminal cases, if you can even call them that.
What the Protect Act is really protecting is the ability of the police to make arrests, the ability of prosecutors to prosecute, the ability of judges to preside over trials, and the need for jails to incarcerate the guilty. The "justice" system needs bodies in order to continue to exist.
It also protects politicians ability to get re-elected by parents who rabidly foam at the mouth by any reminder that their precious children actually possess genitals.
Easily the best comment right here.
Seconded.
Thirded.
And the fact that their kids are having sex at a younger and younger age escapes most parent's notice too. Gee.... let's see... underage single mothers looking for their baby-fathers on Maury?
Where are the Tank Police when we need them? T_T
People have always had sex once they went through puberty and thus stopped being children.
It's not new.
In the past young females of childbearing age were married off to Men.
Today such Men are caged or killed (and you applaud).
+++ u r right...but that's why the laws r for...hihihi!
You're making the assumption that laws in the US actually follow LOGIC. This must be corrected immediately. Laws are exempt from LOGIC, therefore can be as inconsistent and idiotic as the lawmakers themselves.
Welcome to AMERIKKA, FUCK YEAH!!!
Wait it's all a little confusing, did this guy only have hentai loli,or real ones also?
But yeah thats america lol bush and is it me or do i see that they never really allowed computer generated porn for lolis there?
I'm pretty sure from the article on here that it's both, as it doesn't seem like he's disputing the rl pictures, in any case, is it my imagination, or are the people that have rl pics and rape rl children getting far less jail time than this?
2d hurr.
Little girls are not obscene. Gay parades are.
Let's put all actors in jail for being murderers when we're at it. I mean they kill imaginary people on a daily basis.
That's just fair isn't it?
We're on our way to glorious Socialism. I wonder which part of the constitution will be decked next? I should bet on that cos probably soon I won't be allowed to bet either.
the main reason and truly only is that if you are good anuf at the game of the system or happen to be really rich to begin with to do so to have any say you whant above others below yourself in the system so that is why its called the most free?
well because of this i dont think america well be this way for long if who ever that have the most controle or money says it to be other wise leaving there self and whoever else that is placed blow that indavisual superieur well thats just how it is
Fascism more like.
Thats exactly it! Fascism! Everyone always jumps to socialism or commmunism, which are technically more free than we capitalists are in theory. The problem with Communism is that, while perfect in theory, human nature keeps it from succeeding, because theories are treacherous things that dissolve faster than a biscuit raft.
Point taken. I will, however, continue to live in my little bubble and blame human nature.
The biggest problem you don't seem to realize is, everyone is not equal in a socialist state. Most especially the ones that control the money, do you honestly think that they wouldn't make money dissapear into their own pockets as opposed to, key word here, giving it back to it's citizens that earned it? Fascism at least isn't ashamed and abashed at what it does to the point of making it seem to smell better than dead sewer rats.
You are one of the very few people I have EVER heard say that besides fascists themselves. I fail to see the bright side of fascism against absolute equality.
Communism is a slave ideology which is as flawed and worthless in theory as it is in actuality. Fascism is far preferable.
Lol. Time to drop Kodomo no Jikan
... into the biggest xerox facility on the planet, thereby turning all of that into WMDs to secure your bid for world domination.