“Japan Lags in Loli Ban” – UNICEF Lies Exposed?
- Categories: Anime, News
- Date: Dec 16, 2008 20:50 JST
- Tags: Censorship, Crime, Law, Lolicon, Politics, Raep, Statistics
Finding themselves with nothing better to do for the moment, Japan’s politicians have been generating political capital by humouring moralist groups such as UNICEF, who have launched a hysterical crusade against what they see as lax laws on the part of Japan.
An opposition diet member (of the Koumeito – a major religious party run by a Buddhist sect) recently petitioned the government for even more laws, meaning against loli manga and similar: “We’d like the government to assist with all its energy in bringing these laws to pass” – and Prime Minister Rozen Aso, himself having a Catholic background, responded positively “We must proactively deliberate upon the matter”.
Rather more interesting than the vapid posturing of politicians out for their names is the critical response we see on the Internet, particularly on 2ch. A quite extensive body of statistics and other evidence disputing the anti-freedom of expression camp has come to be commonly presented, so looking at some of this is probably of interest.
I should caution that these statistics are assembled by partisans (just as are those assembled by the other side of the argument); since you can read the scaremongering side of things anywhere, not least on UNICEF’s pages, here I only present evidence (accredited, of course) from 2ch:
UN Statistics for 2000: Rapes per 100,000 people:
| Canada | 78.08 | “Simple Possession”, Loli Manga Banned |
| Australia | 77.79 | “Simple Possession”, Loli Manga De Jure Banned |
| USA | 32.05 | “Simple Possession”, Loli Manga Banned (Constitutionally Invalid) |
| Sweden | 24.47 | “Simple Possession”, Loli Manga Banned |
| UK | 16.23 | “Simple Possession”, Loli Manga, BDSM to be Banned |
| France | 14.36 | “Simple Possession” |
| S. Korea | 12.98 | “Simple Possession” |
| Germany | 9.12 | “Simple Possession” |
| Russia | 4.78 | |
| Taiwan | 4.08 | |
| Japan | 1.78 | “Simple Possession” (Just introduced) |
“Simple Possession” laws refer to just possessing pictures being a crime – actually producing/distributing the pictures is a crime in all these jurisdictions.
Note that the selection of countries here is provided by 2ch (I added in Australia as it is of interest), and so naturally has an agenda. See them for yourself, or alternatively check the UNSD.
It seems that it is the rest of the world which lags Japan…
Does Child Pornography Foster Sex Crime?
Source: National Police Agency – Rape Statistics
| Total Crimes | Minors | Under Primary School Age | Primary School | Middle School | Minors Over Middle School Age | |
| 1960 | 2533 | 54 | 428 | 479 | 1572 | |
| 1965 | 3135 | 76 | 414 | 626 | 2019 | |
| 1970 | 1996 | 29 | 169 | 274 | 1524 | |
| 1975 | 3704 | 1718 | 29 | 225 | 308 | 1156 |
| 1980 | 2610 | 1117 | 19 | 143 | 210 | 745 |
| 1985 | 1802 | 855 | 4 | 126 | 224 | 501 |
| 1990 | 1548 | 702 | 2 | 55 | 91 | 554 |
| 1995 | 1500 | 606 | 1 | 45 | 71 | 489 |
| 2000 | 2260 | 1006 | 4 | 60 | 146 | 796 |
| 2005 | 2076 | 875 | 3 | 41 | 165 | 666 |
| 2006 | 1948 | 808 | 3 | 46 | 151 | 608 |
“Loli material, whether as young idols, loli manga, eroge or similar, only started to become common in Japan during the mid 1980s. The first ban of such material was in 1999.”
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nooooooooooooooooo >.<
They're wrong now, they were wrong before:
http://www.ifeminists.net/introduction/editorials/2006/1011roberts.html
And something about how UNICEF 'denied' promoting contraceptives and abortions:
http://www.lifesitenews.com/waronfamily/unicef/unicef.pdf
Not only are they wrong, they usually provide 'cover' for Western corporations who would drive millions to starvation for small increase in profit margin.
While I applaud their previous stance on abortion and contraceptives, less so their current denial of it, they are the lowest of the low on my personal scale for thinking that 2D fictional characters should have any sort of human rights accorded to them.
i agree there just fuckign fictional cartoon characters i mena there not even self aware computer prograsm so y shoudl they need rights if u ask em i think the world still just thinks that seeing images of loli will turn ppl pedophile in same way they think violence on tv or in movies will make ppl violent in general
even tho the human race has some what mellowed since those inventions
They weren't wrong before and they aren't wrong now. Lolicon is corrupt and so are you. i'm not sayin that cos i dont like you, im sayin that cos its the truth. You might think that just because you have all found each other due to 21st century internet, that it means you can group together. you probably even feel encouraged by what you think you are because others are joining up on your gallery-filled lolicon forums.
Problem is, it's now very easy to identify all of you. with you're pedobear symbol (which isn't exactly a less aggressive psuedonym than "pedophile" as he rapes fictional children, if you'd gone along with the butterfly peace loli/pedo symbol, then it would be different)
You all feel confidant saying things on the internet, because you can say it from behind your screens, in your bedroom. this is false confidance.
Thing is, you're all frustrated, because you all know why UNICEF are urgently fighting it, and not other organisations. because they recognise the truth about lolicon and its clear-as-day-light obvious assocation to sex with children.
Let's come off it boys, it's not about harming or "making love" with real children. its the sexual attraction itself.
it's only because Japan didn't act against the rising number of erotic manga artists in the late 1960's. They'll defend that it keeps the sickos/deviants at bay. This eventually
Because this would imply only existing within your life, which doesn't involve harm to anyone else, you will argue that it infringes your humans rights. But the human rights act is flawed because it is not paired with human responsibility. Because it isn't paired, people, and terrorists are able to exploit the act.
And some of you are very easy to read, sayin things like "i love UNICEF but hate how they want lolicon out" - sounding as if you're completely obvlivious to its controversy. And you want to try to sound good by saying you're "up" for UNICEF.
It may be true, that for some, or many, lolicon does tap into the sexual spectrum, to the nth degree. It even makes sense to be attracted to children, whether they are real or fictional.
What I hate about you followers is that I know exactly why you like hentai, and the pretentious responses I always get back are really annoying.
you all know it's a fact that the Japanese are a very exotic sexually charged culture. You all know that most of hentai is about making the characters cute, fresh, innocent, healthy and even in some cases, premature. It was interesting to see how it started off as regular adult hentai, and over recent times, it's become much more graphic, much better quality, much much younger and more confidant about its sexual intentions.
I know full well that the author of all the lolicon images and stories published them intentionally for all pedophiles, and lolicons (which is basically a pedophile but in the world of fantasy and imagination).
I'm really glad that finally, it has become against the law to view or possess/publish lolicon pictures, because quite frankly, i've become very cheesed off with some of you people defending your guilty pleasure with all your life's might. and it really annoys me when you paste pictures of graphs depicting the decline of criminal offences due to the availability of lolicon. its a joke. how do you know it decreased because of the existence of lolicon? tell you now, you choose things, and ignore everything else, and that is very faulty.
you're just Trying to make it less about the core issue of sex with minors, and more about people not being fair with you or saying the positive effects on society it can bring. please!
The weird thing is, is that most pictures I have seen of lolicon depicting sex with a 7year old girl, is that most of them depict the girl crying, or looking guilty. so it's almost as if some of you are wanting to see this kind of stuff, but with FORCE involved. So honestly people, there's no credibility in supporting lolicon. I'm not saying that it isn't sexy - it probably is. but the ideal that it depicts, is extremely dangerous, especially when these sexual ideals are put onto the internet for it to breed within other cultures.
It isn't fair for those people that find it extremely unnerving, offensive. and even worse for those people who do like it, develop a habit for it, and become addicted themselves. Psycho-sexual disorders are on the rise. and I wouldn't be surprised if it was become of lolicon, and pornography in general.
The guy who thinks that the reality / fantasy boundry is true. you're the one thats crazy, you are totally ignoring the effect on society. you know its controvertial yet you make it seem like its natural. you're totally acting as if this ban is completely crazy and absurd.
You can be a lolikon or a toddlercon or whatever you want to be, but you should keep it to yourselves. I wouldn't say even viewing it and masturbating to it, which is what you do, is bad, but PUBLISHING them, and sharing them with others on the internet, is influencing other people. and you're all doing it in public view. your fantasies should stay within your own circle of influence, that way, you're only taking your own responsibility.
THUMBS UP TO BAN ON LOLICON - makes me so happy.
Long troll is long.
Wow don't need to say much to this except that you say we are trying to justify sex with minors when said minors exist only in a fictional realm! I do not condone sex with children because personally besides the implied age I find no similarities between real children and lolicon children to me are just...well kids but when I see a loli picture I don't see a child I see a FICTIONAL CHARACTER and I do find these characters physically attractive but since these fictional characters are depicted to be minors you jump to the conclusion that I am attracted to real children which is far from true and not only that but you also think that at any moment I might fly off the handle in some random act of crazed sex hungry pedophilia, which is even further from the truth. As for the fact that you express that the ban "Makes you so happy" it just proves even further to me and I'm sure others reading this that you say this not because you think it is harming anyone but because you as a person disapprove of it which is unfair and unjust, so in conclusion next time you call me a Terrorist back it up with valid facts.
Right.
So, explain to me in words that -I- can understand why:
- I think loli is hot.
- Imagining something even remotely similar being done to real children triggers a quite intense gag reflex and makes -more- alarm bells go off in my head than the current data retention law talks do.
In fact, I like to avoid real children, regardless of gender or whatnot, because they tend to, in most cases, annoy the living hell out of me.
I do not really see a connection between liking loli and being an actual pedophile. That's the "Splatter movies make you a mass murderer" argument. I do however agree that some of the stuff seems to outright pander to actual pedophiles. I do not even touch those doujins/whatever with a ten foot pole.
Then again, I do not understand a lot of things. Like why I'm trying to write a serious response to an obvious troll.
Ah hell.
cool story, bro
tl;dr
Well actually I did.
I would recommend recommend Joel Feinberg's "Moral Limits of Criminal Law" to remedy your ignorance of the concepts of harm and offense. I assure you that it is relatively accessible to a lay audience.
And seriously... terrorists? Are you fucking comparing terrorists to lolicons? That sounds like a cheap rhetorical tactic only ten-year olds would use.
0/10
Another Anon posted this a while ago.
The cuteness, naiveness, and playfulness of the girl involved makes it delicious. The sight of her beautiful, adorable loli body which is just starting to develop makes it delicious. Imagining having sex with such a girl who, because of her age and current level of mental development would have the significance and pleasure of the act magnified by a ton for her, and by seeing this for you as well makes it delicious. It is just so natural. So innocent So pure. To completely forget yourself and rediscover your own inner child and innocence while the girl looks at you with her smiling, willing, and understanding face while the ugly and unaccepting world around you melts away just feels oh so right. That beats normal, dull, mundane sex with some typical girl around your own age who is only interested in maturity and commitment, takes the act with a grain of salt, and wouldn't understand any of this any day, even if it is only imaginary.
but its not something that can spread, a normal person sees something like that and says "eeeewww.....wtf!?? ur fucking sick man!"
if he has underage raper potential (hes atracted to underage school girls/boys) then it givs him some less violent and less rapeful way of settisfing his dark raper desires.
if they have no porn, they will look at the neighboors daughter or my daughter at school or even yours.....and fap it while thinking of HER.
i sleep much better knowing the rapers think of animeted children rather than real children when they fap it.
in my opinion,its a desiase that cant be treated by the ban of loli since loli is a distraction from real humans.
if u want to protect children,dig deeper banning loli is a short term solution(god forbid it might rise back to 1965's figures after the "stay low" shock expires in a few years)
i think better than ban loli,make punishment laws much harsher forcing pedophiles to be sufficient with loli or spend their life in prison(sheperding them to harmless activities by enforcing harsh laws should work better than taking away the only harmless solution which is loli,i do not consider them imagening things to be harmless since they would rather imagine real human figures THAT THEY KNOW when imagening and that is not harmless at all!!!)
the reason i think loli is the best go at pacifing pedophiles is this(explained through a "normal" person example):
when you fap to porn/make love to your wife after your done, you move on to work/sleep/whatever and dont want to do it again for quite some time.
if you dont have sex/fap for lets say...a month or year
you feel like you cant take it anymore,you go to a bar or a party and try to get laid.(they will feel the same urge building up if they have no relief)
they are sick,they cant stop being pedo just like gay ppl cant stop being gay...best to let them be themself in a harmless way.(my wish is that someday every pedo will fap to loli and forget about the next door 12 year old girl...thats never gona happen since ppl just lack self control,but i do belive that its a step closer to defeating REAL child pornography....with fake one)
*on a note i am against child pornography and rapers
*i am supporting fetishers,homosectuals,and any other HARMLESS orientations(even incest). no matter what my personal opinion of their orientation is, it is their right as long as they are harmless
*i am supporting loli because i belive it has the potential to decrease crimerates IF AUTHORITIES USE THE OPPURTUNITY to shepard pedophiles with laws and enforcment to the more harmless path(of non-human sectual stress relief rather than human sectual stress relief)
ok.....that was my opinion on the matter+what i think needs to be done concerning the bigger problem+disclaymer+reason of my support of loli.
damn thats long!
oh and as for UNISEF,they are fighting for a good cause...but on the wrong front. they need to stop and think,or atleast understand that exposure to child pornograpy cant create pedophiles,it can either create hatred twords the content or EXPOSE the "sleeper" potential pedo and redirect him before he does anything stupid.
*quite a book there,if anyone actually reads this, do consider my proposition to use loli as a harmless solution to pedo's by harsher real pedo laws and enforcment, and post your opinion
this is exactly what any psychologist would say.
one thing i would have to mention is the fact that the first graph and the second set of statistics contradict each other, which means that somebody is lying.
from your respnse, you just hate pedophilles.
which is quite understandable considering the evils.
but all you care about is getting them off sight so that you wont see them in your backdoor.
and that is basickly all you want,you dont seem to care about the children even one tiny bit.
you dont understand pedophilles,you dont try to come up with a solution.
all you are basicly saying is "fuck off from my lawn".
well the internet is not your lawn,its evryone's lawn...even ppl you hate have a place in it.
and its good that thats in the open,if it wasnt then nobody would do crap because they wouldnt fucking see the problem in their face.
no politician EVER talked about the issue before UNICEF and others put the pressure and increased avarness.
loli doesnt possibly encourage pedo-rapes, just like porn doesnt encourage rapes........we have all been there in THAT fight,and it turned to be fact...porn of any kind decreasses chances of rapings.
you dont know anything about the real issue.
you just hate pedophilles for their malfunction
and not because the malfunction makes them do horrible things
pedophilles are not contaigous,neither are homosectuals,lesbians or fetishists.
god created them like that,the phenomenom exsists since ancient times.
you need to take care of the problem rather than try to hide/isolate/"reducate"/kill,again as with lesbians,homosectuals and fetishists in the past...we again focus on hating the diffrent rather than just taking care of the problem in a reasonable and safe way.(ppl are BORN pedo,not made into pedo its a flaw in our genes and it was spotted in animals in the wild aswell)
3d pig is disgusting.
why would we want to raep real loli when we have our strike bitches?
You - wrong
tl;dr
Do you believe any of the nonsense you are spouting,wudntuwannaknow?
I'm a lolicon and I agree with wudntuwannaknow (on pretty much every level), against my own interests; just the same way that were I a wealthy person in America, I would vote green or democrat even though it would mean more taxes for me. It'd be for the better.
I love lolicon, but that doesn't make it a totally innocent thing. It depicts children being raped, for god's sake. Cartoons, yes, but kid cartoons, with kid bodies.
wudntuwannaknow's valid point that linking declining rape rates with lolicon distribution is incredibly simplistic, and unless you're ignorant or profoundly self-deluded, you'd agree with him. Even if lolicon played some minor role in such a trend, using this as ammunition in an argument is just being flippant to the issues.
I would hate to see lolicon banned (and may have my reservations about banning any content that doesn't harm anyone in the making), but would I disagree with the proponents of said ban, or fail to understand their repulsion of lolicon? Not in the least.
ps: the number of times I've heard this same argument, almost identically worded every time, is astounding. Is it the same guy every time, or is this just some barnyard soundbite defense like the creationist watchmaker/human eye argument:
"In fact, I like to avoid real children, regardless of gender or whatnot, because they tend to, in most cases, annoy the living hell out of me."
tl;dr
Next time, come back with some statistics that actualy prove what your saying. Before we even get to the point of you offending me by denying me my freedom of speech, your offending me by putting forth your veiws as if they are the given truth.
Although I believe these statistics are valid, I hope you can cite other reputable sources for them so it may be possible to cross check them from multiple sources. A direct link to a page from Japanese government, UN, or widely recognized international human rights group would be very welcome.
'UK 16.23 “Simple Possession”, Loli Manga, BDSM to be Banned'
FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF
Love UNICEF, but hate how they want lolicon out.
Y'know, it's going to be a case of 'For' or 'Against'. I wouldn't mind UNICEF protecting children around the world then they're MOST NEEDED, but looking at how they operate, there are absolutely no objections about child abuse.
So no lolicon for you, unless you wanna go to jail.
Incouding abuse of fictitious child abuse? What happened to the boundaries of reality and fantasy? Who's the crazy one in this picture?
'#1 South Africa: 1.19538 per 1,000 people'
DAMMIT UNICEF, LOOK AT SOUTH AFRICA! THEY MUST HAVE LOTS AND LOTS OF CHILD PORNOGRAGHY OVER THERE! DO SOMETHING ABOUT THEM, RATHER THAN PETIT COUNTRIES LIKE JAPAN.
WHAT WAS THAT? JAPAN HAS BEEN SUPPLYING LOLI TO AFRICA???
Then they must ban their own MTVs...
lol yea 2 days ago i opened it up hoping for some new hip music and there wasn't even one clip that didnt feature half naked models.
its seriously messed up with the woman usage on that channel
The Japanese figures would be *reported*, which... well, given Japan's society, wouldn't reflect the real figures in the slightest. In a country where parents would prefer to let their children live in their bedrooms for their entire lives in fear of causing a scene in front of the neighbours, it's a bit doubtful many people would confess to something as 'shameful' as rape...
Yeah, because 100% of the people in Japan are exactly the same, just like you read on the Internet.
What, you really think the other countries then have a 100% report rate? Give me a break.
Regardless of whether it's only "reported rapes" or not, the trend shown in the rate of rape over time is still valid.
>>In a country where parents would prefer to let their children live in their bedrooms for their entire lives in fear of causing a scene in front of the neighbours
What load of rubbish have you been reading?
Yes, Tony D, you can't ever trust those sneaky Japs. /sarcasm
Look, Japan's a first-world democracy. They're not perfect, but they deserve as much benefit of the doubt as any other Western nation.
Given their politicians do not appear to be half as dense as some of the ones in western democracies, I'm actually willing to give Japan -more- benefit of the doubt.
Really? ask the DPJ ANYTHING about how their military works, you'll be left dumbfounded and fearful for Japan's safety.
While your at it, consider how their political campaigns were carried out! You'd think such an educated society would put more in their politician's policies than emotional appeals. It was like half of Obama's campaign, the half the touted "change" over and over again.
Whats that got to do with the price of tea in china?
What the hell, didn't know Sweden had such a high rate of rape? It's not brought up THAT often in the media, so the 24rapes/100000population seems a bit off to me...
My impression is that rape is something that you can quite often see something about in swedish newspaers.
Also loli manga might be banned in sweden but it's not like we really care. No one has even been brought to court about a case of loli manga from what I know.
Yeah I suppose so, guess I'm not really that up to date with what's happening here in Sweden.
Also, when I were out walking with a friend I saw that the headline on a paper was "17 year old raped after online-date"...
You know now that I think about it, doesn't this seem awfully similar to kids fighting over something as trivial as 'You can't play with sticks, because I'm not allowed to as I hurt people, so you shouldn't too!'
A little more perspective; 'We can't handle things right over here, so we'll force others to listen to things, that didn't work for us! But it sounds good!'
Or another e.g. would be a scam artist/door to door salesman making something appear wrong about something when there really isn't. Like 'Did you know you're gutter is bad and is ready to fall apart? Buy this 'useless thing' that looks good, and looks better! It 'WILL' help improve your life!'
Another e.g. Politicians; all mouth about policies, no results in the end, or just gets worse because there was no effect.
Just because the West has an increase in rape and can't handle it, doesn't mean that Japan can't too.
bull
To be fair looking at those statistics, the rape thing in Japan was going down in numbers before 1980 anyway. We don't know what caused the downward trend, maybe certain laws where passed.
I agree that it would be fallacious to conclude from these stats that lolicon causes a decrease in sex crime against minors (correlation != causation), but they go a long way to disproving the idea that lolicon causes an increase in this sort of crime.
That is true. I personally can give a rat's ass because in every country there is some douchebag that tries to get stuff banned. Jack Thompson in the USA is trying to get videogames banned and says it's because it causes an increase in violent behavior.
I have plenty of background in statistics, so I am only too aware that these sort of figures are open to abuse - this is essentially as partisan as UNICEF. Still, they do balance out the propaganda war, and of course UNICEF's are possibly even more dubious.
And Osamu Tezuka said, Let there be Astroboy: and there was Astroboy. And Japan saw the Astroboy, that it was good: and Osamu Tezuka divided the Astroboy from the Mickey Mouse. And he called the Mickey Mouse gay, and the Astroboy he called Anime.
And Osamu Tezuka said, Let us make ani-ota in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the mizugi of the sea, and over the lolis of the air, and over the nekomimi, and over all the anime, and over every creepy thing that creepeth upon Japan. So Osamu created ani-ota in his own image, in the image of Osamu created he him; fanboy and fangirl created he them. And he blessed them, and said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the mizugi of the sea, and over the lolis of the air, and over every living anime that aireth upon the TV.
This is why the rape went down during the 1980s
Basically Osamu created fangirls from the ribs of fanboys and their yaoi.
This is from the 1st book of the Bible Black, Neon Genesis.
amen
return 0;
I find the last sentence very cool ^^
Likewise, you can't trick the net, bitches.
I smell conspiracy..... Smells really bad and stinky.....
I live in Canada
raep get (☞ﾟ∀ﾟ)☞
Hmm...interesting...
Wait...
isn't 90% of the Japanese manga "Loli?" So they will ban 90% of the manga?
Or just those obscene Lolis?
It is considered loli till they reach the adult age of 18 right?
It is considered loli if the character "looks" under 18.
Which constitutes 90% of female manga characters.
Thus, the case.
Of course there is no relation at all to the fact that Japanese girls do look 'younger' to western eyes.
Er, anyway. Does this specifically cover explicit stuff? Or also suggestive stuff? Anything else? What?
Say hello to the onee-chan type characters.
lol one judge in US said that it doesnt matter if its real or not and sentenced a guy to 20 years
so according to that if we watch a movie and someone gets killed...we will be charged with assistance in murder since we watched didnt do nothing and even enjoyed the scene........i tell you ppl world is getting more and more fucked up by the second
Not the world lelouch 11 just english speaking and American influenced countries.
They're gonna have to catch me first!! *Jumps out the window*
Haha. My country aint gives shit about this. Rape ofc is a crime, but possessing drawed loli pictures is not.
Hooray for Hungary!!
Man, wtf Canada, I thought you guys were supposed to be the nicer side of America. I am actually kind of impressed.
Add Poland to your lists of “Simple Possession” being a crime. Since this month being in possession of any animated pictures which show a person supposedly under 16 in a sexual pose (not only naked and sex but also showing panties etc.) is considered the same as raping such person. Catholic political parties banzai...
Of course i mean simple possession of animated pictures started to be crime this month. real ones were banned from soon after the world war,
The answer is simple then. Just don't have any pictures where the person is under 16, though I do think that attributing an age to an animated character and following it is a bit ridiculous.
It'd cut out a lot of generic lolicon, but you'd still be free to go after characters like Shana, Louise, Konata, Eva from Negima, etc.
Most of these laws have "resemblance" clauses which pretty much scotch your idea.
Guess Dizzy (Guilty Gear) off limits then? (3 years old, supposedly...)
The most funny thing is that they will even have to ban Paprika movie because it features naked 12 years old girl although painted from behind. I don't care about lolicon stuff because don't have such but almost all hentai are also banned. Most interesting is how they are going to recognise which show has under-aged "cast"
Er...
Doesn't the graph kind of hurt this cause? While the lolicon boom seems to correlate with a decrease in crime, so does the first ban...
as i see it the rsate went up again when the ban was put in place then also i notice the decline seemed to accelerate with the advent of loli in th 80s.
The chart is only a correlation and in no way signifies cause and effect. Rule one of statistical analysis.
Somebody forgot to tell UNICEF that, it seems...
Why all increase on the graphic after 1995 ? A specific event ?
The ban was in 1999. The graph resolves an "increase" between 1995 and 2000 as a laser-straight line between those years. Pretty clear-cut.
lol cartoons have human rights
Toshokan Sensou. I can see it happen.
Arte, your info on U.S. laws on lolicon are a bit off. You're actually allowed to have possession of it, but you just can't transport it over state borders.
This isn't about protecting Children's Human Rights, or Children in and of themselves.
The issue is either: about Money, ideology, or Political Power. That's all it is, and all it ever was.
A ban on lolicon will NOT stop violent crimes against children. It will raise it. All those sexually-deprived deviants, wanting their fantasy fix will get it one way or another. personally, I'd prefer they got their jollies from wanking off to *illustrated* artwork rather than give in to the need of the moment and hurt someone else.
Human beings are sexual creatures. It's an inescapable fact. Denying someone else a much more harmless outlet for it is just adding gasoline to the fire. And quite frankly, someone else's religious morals are NOT on my list of things to listen to.
For those who found the above too long... to make a long explanation much shorter: it's a herd mentality thing. I don't follow the herd. Never have and never will.
Polichickens = Mealy-mouthed pretentious ****s.
Agree
Well said!!
I couldn't agree more!
AMEN!
that makes sense but honestly freaks will be freaks. does anyone think that there was ever a person who said to themself that if its ok in the cartoon its ok in real life. if someone is prone to rape they are capible of rape nothing is going to stop them laws or porn. think about it say theres a 12 year old girl down the street from a child rapist well pretend its your street. look out the window, see any cops? these laws are just there to make the government look useful. they nab 1 guy with 10 kilos of coke they saved the country. now how much coke is left in your country? now they can claim cartoons are child pornography and save our children from sexual devients. cause guys like me have tentacles to harass children all day, amirite?
Miroku74: Best comment ever read on Sankakucomplex!
FULLY ACK.
Just as with the banning of alcohol, adult pornography and guns the basis for the pro-ban rhetoric lies in distortion, vague connections, and appeals to fascism (both left and right wing). No one, absolutely no one, has haven proven, despite what UNICEF and NOW have tried to falsely convey, that banning pornography lowers counts of rape. By statics alone we can see the nations with the highest counts of rape are those with the most fascist form regulation of the alleged provocative product. Allowing for bans on one form of pornography opens the door for other types on the same basis.
Some one ought to inform the UN of exactly what National Sovereignty means. Nations around the world, particularly the USA, need to come out in droves against this pseudo-governmental agency.
i'm not sure though, that statistics for Russia are valid too,
'cause crimes 'in soviet russia' are not so often reported
and the more humiliating the crime is the less is posibility
that victim will tell 'bout it.
That's stupid, if they think drawing lolicon is that bad, then drawing an assassination is even worse, since in most countries 3rd grade murder is considered an even more agravating crime!
I hate people how love to blame other things for the human nature!! A molester is BORN, not made....it's scientifically proved that these people have a different brain function. That means, anything can trigger the criminal instincts in these people, if it's not lolicon it certainly WILL be other thing!
They really should put some effort in combating real criminals instead of doing silly things like that.
Or, like, because it's unicef and stuff, they could spend the money that people donate to them to expand, like, the food infrastructure in third world countries so less children have to starve, instead trying to push nonsensical laws through Japan with lots of PR and marketing.
Do those people even know what they're doing anymore?
You mean get off our lazy asses and do something!!!!!!!!????????
Are you insane? Nuts? Or just a friggin retard? It is more profitable to play the blame game!
Our last Pres. thought investing in child medical was a waste of money! He put it in to war and there was much capitalizing!
Thats It! A war on lolicon we can make a fortune. Look like we are moral gods!
All those reports on child rapes and kidnapping oh and don't forget the murders. Screw That! There is no way we can make money on combating this! A Ban is the only thing that will save our Dammed souls. And make some money off of some poor slob who gets caught with it.
Remember if you rape you can get out with good behavior possibly within two years.
Just to repeat taxpayers pay for the stay and pockets get money.
Of course this is just an example of what I read and hear.. I love the Otaku culture I am one and this definitely the wrong way of dealing with this issue.
sorry Anon your statement needed a little force with it.
the reason why this stuff happens is because no one has a voice any more we have no organization.
And if we did the so called MORAL THAN THOU will make a bigger mess than what they do already.
being a loli fan I can believe its the taking away that's going to encourage it. Seriously? if someone took your mags er whatever you probably go for second best? right? well, in this case you take their loli, the "second-best" thing would be unfortunately a REAL minor.
Funny. If they figure that loli is the cause of young children sexual abuse, then why don't they ban smoking as it is a PROVEN cause of cancer deaths of the smoker and those around the smoker. They might as well also ban alcohol for being a PROVEN cause of drunk driving accidents as well. We just can't have good things anymore :(
They did ban alcohol in the US almost ninety ago. It was called the Eighteenth Amendment to the US Constitution.... Prohibition. And of course, we all see how THAT worked *rolls eyes* :D.
Argueing that alcohol needs to be unbanned is much easier, don't you think?
There is hardly any proof that Lolicon really caused all the rape per say. Like in US or other countries, Anime wasn't popular till around beginning of 2000. So instead of trying to figure out the reason behind all this. They opt the easy way out. As long as they appear to be doing something, people will be satisfied. And Who's too stand in their way? A bunch of Otakus? surely they don't give a damn or think they are any threat. Really..quite pathetics. their are close to 1 billion people who are suffer from some sort of malnutrition right now. Do something about that please
Well... got on it late with the new rapelay pull of from amazon article, but I'd like to notify you that Loli manga are also (indirectly) banned in France.
If you are curious about it, it is the article 227-23 of our penal code.
It is stating that possessing "sexual representation of minor" or regularly visiting website with such content is penalized of 2 years imprisonment and a 30.000€ fine (38,000 US dollars or so).
There was me thinking France respected Article 10 of ECHR more than Britain - I guess not.
Odd.., the number of minors rapings in the 60-70's were extremely high. Could it be because minor sex was legal that time or does it had something to do with the Hippies trend?
Simply put: My thoughts on lolicon range around "Don't give a banana phone" and "Let it bleed to death". What you dudes all dig is your business; I have some standards as to what to fap to, and loli(precisely any girl that's not 14+, but whatever) goes against it. That does not mean that I avoid stuff with loli content in it (e.g. Kodomo No Jikan was awesome, loli service or not, though IMO the manga seems to be against lolicons when you look at the twisted relationship shown much later between [SPOILER] and [SPOILER]).
In fact, I won't worry about this hulabaloo; I'll just let fate decide.
P.S. Oh, and Schoolmizus suck too.
666 lol...well loli BDSM or pretty much BDSM in general is abit extreme...and shouldn't be recorded in videos or books.
numbers don't lie, when you fap you are later to tired to rape.
What once enters internet, never comes off it. Better gather lots of data and set it on RAID-0. A Lifetime supply, just in case. =D
and when GTA gets banned.....
hell breaks loose.
And japan's suicide rate SKYROCKETS... AGAIN!
on the issue of sexual crimes being related to pornography, various studies of have indicated no links conclusive or otherwise between the two, with the exception of one study (malamuth, addison, and cross, 2001). So the conclusion that must be drawn with the avalible data is those individuals that commit sex crimes because they view pornography but view pornography because those tendencies are already present. Also according to the U.S. Department of Justice, 2005 the rate of rape per 1000 persons ages 12 and over has been steadily decreasing over the years while the amount of pornography is increasing by 266 websites per day (Good Magazine). Now I know none of this data relates specifically to child pornography and sexual abuse I couldn't find any information that wasn't made up. So yeah if you want to talk about this sort of stuff come with facts and not just opinions.
sources
1970, President's Commission on Pornography
AGCOP, 1986
Bauserman, 1998
Bogaert, 2001
Poor graph is poor. Its based on raw values for crime statistics, which does not take into account either estimated report rates OR population increases. I dont know the data for Japan, but I know the US has doubled in population since 1960, and I imagine Japan, which suffered FAR more casualties from WW2 than the US, and thus would be susceptible to a relatively large increase in population, would have at least been the same. So taking into account the raw data over the increase in population, combined with higher reporting rates over time (which is a general trend), Most likely Japan's sex crime RATE has been in a freefall for the last several decades. In addition, since the lolicon ban of 1999, the sex crime values for minors, which is what the lolicon banned hoped to resolve, fell SLOWER than the overall sex crime values, suggesting there's a third influence that affected sex crime in general (perhaps improved investigation, prosecution, and incarceration or rehabilitation for sexual offenses in general?), and that the lolicon ban specifically didnt necessarily have any appreciable effect.
In addition, psychology has always shown that rape is about power and violence more than sex in general anyway, the very idea that porn causes rape is flawed.
I personally do not enjoy lolicon for being lolicon, although I don't automatically pass on it if it includes a fetish I do enjoy. Most of my experiences have been more negative than positive however. That being said, I don't think it either encourages the distribution of real child porn nor sex acts with children, both of which disgust me. If a person enjoys it, and it doesn't harm anyone else, I believe its their right to watch/read it. Perhaps some of the posters are right, and occasionally it gives potential pedophiles an outlet for sexual frustration when otherwise they would become actual pedophiles. Regardless, I don't think it is outright harmful, nor should it be blanket banned.
say a young boy knows about loli or was sneaking off and so on is he considered a pedophile.
or say a 13 year old and so on since there young and they considered a pedophile.? why does UNICEF keep on wanting to get into peoples privacy if they want to do what they want then ok stop digging into peoples stuff.
i wouldn't be surprised if the guy who runs UNiDEF(sucks they steal Halloween money) looks at loli. i'm just hating as they say yet i do enjoy my batch of loli every now and then, and theirs to many of us to be stopped.
Summary of main points:
1) They are analyzing the wrong set of data for rape rates across nations. Furthermore, the survey methodology was questionable.
2) A more relevant section in the same survey gives significantly different results.
3) A different survey, which sought to identify # of victims, gave results in which Japan somewhere near the top of the list (the very top belonged to the USA). Granted, this survey had its own issues, but it is probably underestimating the rape rate in Japan compared to other countries.
Detailed data and reasoning:
The statistics used in the compilation is of poor quality, and somewhat misleading, for the following reasons:
1) It does not represent what people seem to be thinking. Going through the pdf from the UNODC (which is where the data is hosted...the UNSD link seems to be a mistake), it seems that the numbers in the table is the # of rapes reported, not the numbers convicted and is therefore extremely prone to variations in reporting rates (to put things in context, I especially recommend that you take a look at the grand total of reported crimes (rates) for all crimes: there are some obvious outliers that would be difficult to explain away...and also shifts of almost three orders of magnitude in the three years from 1998 to 2000 in a politically stable country). i.e. any data in the compilation needs to be taken with a grain of salt and an understanding of the context.
2) The rate of convictions for rape/10000 shows very different values for some countries (I'm looking at Canada: only about 10% of the reported cases end in convictions, compared to Japan's ~33% conviction rate for the same crime).
3) The number of cases reported and the number of rape convictions both depend on the social stigma associated with rape victims, if any exists. For that, I would like to shift your attention to a different survey aimed at assessing crime rates, also administered by an UN agency: in this case the UNCRI. According to the data from the ICVS survey, which seeks to gather information on victims, the disparity between Japan and other countries in question is greatly reduced (0.8% for Japan and Canada, 1.4 for USA, 1.3 for Norway, 0.3 for France, etc.).
4) In the ICVS survey mentioned in 3, the researchers noted that it is likely that the greater the equality for women in a country, the more likely they are to report incidents to the surveyors. Furthermore, that particular section is somewhat more unstable over the years than other crimes surveyed. I would like to further add to the latter point that Japan's 8-fold jump from 0.1% in 1999 to 0.8% in 2003-2004 is by far the largest jump in magnitude with one exception: Ireland's rate jumped from 0.1% to 1.2% in the same period.
5) More about the ICVS survey: if social stigma on the issue exists in Japan, as the large difference between the # reported to police, the # convicted, and the # reported to the surveyors seem to indicate, the methodology of ICVS is likely to promote under-reporting in Japan with respect to other industrialized countries. To be specific, Japan is unique among the developed countries surveyed in that the subjects are interviewed face to face, as opposed to through the telephone.
It seems like UNICEF and agnes only care about media attention than giving two shits about actual children.
Why fight so hard to give animated characters(that never existed in the first place)human rights when the humans that actually exist are told to go fuck themselves if they ask for help?
I live in sweden and i possess loli manga, COPS GONNA GET ME!
Japan has long stood fast on the same censorship, and has been the fastest declining sexual violence crime rate in the world.
Japanese censorship rules, adult material is allowed under the condition it is properly censored and no genital areas are displayed uncensored, language is mild but uncencored in any case. This includes martial viewable by adults and children.
Further more, "loli" or "Lolicon" is not actually i type of adult material, but material in which a younger person under 16 is viewed as sexually attractive usually by obsessive innocence being the primary attraction. Semi adult "loli" scenes are newer but often follow similar restrictions.
The thing about Japans opponents in these debates, they heavily censor all material, but also have far higher crime rates.
My personal Verdict, Maybe The world needs to worry less about Japans ways, and try to understand why the looser nature of Japans ways are breeding generation less likely statistically to commit such crimes.
My theory, Younger more innocent people becoming aware of such things before they fully understand them, may help them to understand on a subconscious level, that they are wrong. This would effectively increase the morality of people, and leave less question on the morality of entertainment content.
This may in fact me very wrong, but is only a theory from an outsider. Regardless Stats have always placed Japan as one of the lowest crime rate countries in the world, and as having one of the highest average intelligence levels in the world.
My Suggestion, and I am happy to be quizzed on why,(lorddeville@yahoo.co.uk) Maybe countries should think less about making Japan like them, and more about being like Japan, as it is meeting the aims they continuously fail at.