Comment by Tyrenol
    2008-10-09 02:00:23

    1st off: Pornography always makes everything better. And last I heard; CLANNAD didn’t do so well without the HGCs.

    2ndly: I know that I’m outnumbered in my opinion. This garbage of a series IS popular. But that doesn’t mean I shouldn’t speak up and state the obvious.

    On a side note: Did I play the “visual novel” and watch the anime? No and no. Is what I say still revelant? Well; just think of me as an outsider looking in and putting you on the spot.

    And finally: “Phenomenally well received?” “Favourable reception?”

    http://www.google.com/trends?q=batman%2C+clannad%2C+ironman&ctab=0&geo=all&date=all&sort=1

    I went to “Google Trends” and compaared CLANNAD with Batman and Ironman. You might wanna check it out.

    Comment by BuggyBY
    2008-10-09 02:35:23

    You can’t exactly compare an anime that has barely got licensed yet to Hollywood blockbuster movies. Hell, replace Clannad with “Sailor Moon” in your search and you get much the same result.

    Comment by Tyrenol
    2008-10-09 02:42:59

    http://www.google.com/trends?q=Clannad%2C+Sailor+Moon

    It’s funny how you mentioned Sailor Moon…

     
     
    Comment by Artefact
    2008-10-09 02:41:05

    I must complement you on your critical thinking and attitude - I happen to appreciate these qualities.

    I checked your figures; unfortunately, I’m going to have to gleefully demolish your argument. If you try restricting the results to Japan:

    http://www.google.com/trends?q=batman%2C+clannad%2C+ironman&ctab=0&geo=JP&date=all&sort=1

    Clannad is ten times more popular than Batman. Even if we include “バットマン”, Clannad still wins by a mile, and displays a huge spike with the new series. Ironman doesn’t even get a look in. You are welcome to shoot back by comparing it to a popular anime, though.

    I must also point out that I generally base my “fans say” type statements on what is being said on the Japanese Internet, where it has almost all been positive.

    Also, Clannad has or had a lock on the Amazon preorder charts for the DVD, so clearly people are buying it and not just praising it on blogs and 2ch.

    Personally, I do not see what the fuss is about, but I think it is accurate to describe it as well received.

    Comment by Artefact
    2008-10-09 02:46:47

    Also, try checking it against “Naruto”…

     
    Comment by Tyrenol
    2008-10-09 03:03:07

    I don’t have an argument against it being well received. I would like to know WHY it’s being well received.

    A series containing someone like Youhei Sunahara, who’s a douchebag who usually gets what he deserves… WAY TOO MUCH in my opinion. And then it gets animated by a company like KyotoAnimu; one of the most Godly animation studios in Japan, yet one with a record of (anime women) treating anime men like dirt.

    It’s not just Clannad, though. It’s Kanon, Fullmetal Panic, To Heart 2, on down to Ranma 1/2, and even Evangelion. It’s Japan’s psychological misandary, and only a few were able to deal with this in a serious fashion.

    I know about the tons of pre-orders for this titles. I fear the day when the entertainment industry will only be about “Godly-animated shows where men are nearly irrevelant.”

    There are women soldiers of Kurdistan’s PKK who treat their male subordinates better than this; and they’re a labled terrorist group.

    http://cnn.com/2008/WORLD/meast/10/06/iraq.pkk/index.html?iref=newssearch

    Comment by ILM
    2008-10-09 10:07:09

    Basically, your beef with the show is that the male characters get treated terribly. I think that is the first time I have heard something like that. Actually, this happens to only Youhei Sunahara.

    The more worrying practice in anime(in my opinion), is the mistreating of women as nothing but fanservice material. At least in CLANNAD, they are given depth and do not exist for the sake of panty-flashing.

    There are many shows out there where women are nearly irrelevant, and exists purely as love interests and/or fanservice. I don’t see you complaining about that. Having shows where men are nearly irrelevant is not a bad thing and would balance this out. (Unless, of cause, you are sexist.)

    In any case, shows where men are irrelevant can be good. Case in point: Simoun. One of the greatest anime series ever made.

     
    Comment by what the heck?
    2008-10-09 12:52:19

    Kurdish terrorists? You must have serious problems telling the difference between fantasy and reality if you think that the fictional slapstick violence in anime is somehow worse than what terrorists do in real life.

    And if you think that Japan has a misandry problem, then you quite clearly don’t know a thing about Japan, a country that despite recent advances is still very misogynist. As far as I can tell, you’re just another out-of-touch otaku who takes his anime so seriously that his sense of reality is warped.

     
    Comment by HumanSoap
    2008-10-09 14:33:38

    Actually, he (Tyrenol) might just be an otaku who doesn’t understand Japanese language. Note that all of the titles he mentioned are easily available in English through fansubs or commercial releases. English-speaking audiences tend to have a much lower tolerance for misogyny than the Japanese do, so the majority of English fansubbers and commercial translators tend to “play it safe” and only translate anime that are neutral or misandrist. Thus, anyone who bases their opinions on just English fansubs and DVD/tapes will end up with very, very incorrect conclusions regarding Japanese gender roles.

    His idea that Clannad is worse than terrorism is really really weird, though.

     
    Comment by lordchair
    2008-11-30 12:53:38

    HumanSoap, you’ve nailed it!

     
     
    Comment by Tyrenol
    2008-10-09 03:18:20

    Finally; it’s funny how you mention Naruto, a show I don’t like either…

    If you restrict the search in Japan only; that title’s neck-and-neck with Clannad. Search via all regions; Naruto crushes Clannad like a building onto a poor defenseless child.

    So no. I don’t have a problem with how popular it is in Japan once it’s kept in Japan. But try to fling that title out to the rest of the world; and I ask the question, “How is it going to be presented?”

    It’s been tried before: “It’s popular in this country, so it should be popular everywhere else.” It’s been tried with Haruhi; now people here and there are sick of it and want to move on. (Especially since there are videos on YouTube featuring pig-ugly people dancing to Haruhi’s theme song.)

     
     
     
    Comment by BuggyBY
    2008-10-09 02:32:37

    Ishikei generally draws superb ero artwork, his Clannad pictures are no exception. Thanks for pointing out Tomusooya too.

     
    Comment by Louis
    2008-10-09 09:43:42

    If you don’t like it, you don’t have to watch it. Stop whining already jeez. Its just an anime series like any other anime series you see. I played the visual novel, and its great.

    Needs moar Nagisa!

     
    Comment by Tyrenol
    2008-10-09 11:08:51

    >>ILM

    GONZO’s Strike Witches had proven that women can deliver fanservice and still be strong, three-dimensional characters.

    That’s who men usually want: Females with a head on their shoulders and a hole. Anyone too mood-swingy and b###hy like Kyou, anyone too “undefeateable” like Tomoyo… A sane guy would yell “NEXT!”

    >>Louis

    I’ve took a “creative writing” class in college. I know which titles have bad writing and bad character interraction from five miles away. And it just so happens that CLANNAD is within said five miles.

    Comment by SomeoneElse
    2008-10-09 12:02:41

    I happen to like CLANNAD, but I agree with you whole heartily. Men are treated like shit and overall, outnumbered in anime. You’ll never see someone fuko (who for the most part is only there for comic relief) get kicked a million times.

    Most anime have men starting to play the damsel in distress role and the women riding in on the shining armor saving the incompetent male lead.

    People need to speak out against bad traits in anime instead of ignoring it like Louis says. Other wise its just gonna spread because it’s seen as part of a formula that works.

    And in my opinion, Batman should not be compared to CLANNAD. In comparison, Batman is great, CLANNAD is not.

     
    Comment by ILM
    2008-10-09 13:12:21

    Firstly, I admit that I dropped Strike Witches after two episodes as I felt it was just an inferior Sky Girls, so I will not argue with you over that.
    Just asking, do you think that sane women see someone “undefeateable” like Himurai Kenshin (from Rurouni Kenshin) and yell “NEXT!”?
    Actually, the girls in CLANNAD are more normal than those in Kanon and AIR, actually. They have a few quirks, but who doesn’t?

    The problem is that how are you so sure that CLANNAD has bad writing and bad character interaction? Just because you took a “creative writing” class means nothing if you do not even try it. I recommend that you watch CLANNAD first, then criticize it.

    You wanted a list of reasons why CLANNAD is great, so here it is.
    Good character interaction
    Good animation
    Good voice acting
    Cute girls
    A harem lead that has character and actively takes action
    The atmosphere
    The mix of drama and comedy
    Moving stories (Yes, a little cliche, but moving nontheless)
    But at the end of the day, the characters are what that carry the show. Their personal motivation, the interaction between them.

    Seriously, give it a try. Throw you preconceptions away and just watch it, one episode a day. After you finished, you can rant about how lousy it is and I will try to have a proper intellectual discussion with you.

     
    Comment by Joestar
    2008-10-11 04:45:46

    >> Tyrenol

    I really wanted to give you the benefit of the doubt, but honestly your fanfics are absolutely dreadful. I don’t think you know what good writing is. Those creative writing classes of yours were clearly worthless. You should demand a refund for those lessons you took.

     
     
    Comment by plmko
    2008-10-09 12:10:35

    You know skimming over what some of the negative comments about Clannad some of you guys have basically said: “I don’t like Clannad and refuse to acknowledge any positives about it simply because it is popular!”

    You know guys thats is one of the crappiest excuse of a reason i’ve ever heard. Perhaps I might as well say food is shit or breathing is gay because everyone does it?
    Seriously keep your hateful comments to yourself if you can’t come up with anything with substance to say.

    Comment by Tyrenol
    2008-10-09 12:23:03

    Okay then. Since you think Clannad is so great then why don’t you explain to us naysayers what makes it so great.

    Give us exact and detailed reasons. Not the “popularist,” “bandwagon,” “Just Shut Up And Enjoy It!” type of reasons. Please.

     
    Comment by BuggyBY
    2008-10-09 17:00:39

    I liked Clannad before it sold out to the man, dammit! *indie tears*

     
     
    Comment by S_K
    2008-10-09 22:23:32

    @Tyrenol - By your own admission you’ve never watched the anime or played the game, yet you can attest to the bad quality of the writing? I’d like to acquire this skill as it would save me a lot of time reading and critical thinking. Rather than an “outsider looking in” you seem more like the heckler in the audience.

    As for positive qualities, I’d say ILM listed a few worthy discussing. One thing that I particularly enjoy despite the harem-esque qualities of the show was theresolution given to the lead’s love interest. Rather than the typical, non-commital everybody gets along (so as not to anger character dedicated fans) we actually see the lead commit to a single relationship, one that is mutual enriching to both characters. I felt it was a strong break from the resolution usually offered in the genre.

     
    Comment by Tyrenol
    2008-10-10 00:07:37

    >>what the heck?

    I know as much about Japan as the next person who doesn’t live in that country. Japan has a different way of doing things than the rest of the world; some ways not as welcome to Americans as they would like.

    A show like “Kodomo no Jigan” that sexualizes elementary school girls. Not even the otaku are dumb enough to proclaim their love for that show in public.

    And I mentioned the PKK; I thought you people LOVE it when when women run things. Isn’t that why you watch anime?

    Speaking of which…

    >>HumanSoap

    I’m not an otaku; I’m an “anime hobbyist.” I call myself an otaku and I’ll get swept into unescapable depression. No thanks.

    >>S_K: I’d like to acquire this skill as it would save me a lot of time reading and critical thinking.

    It’s all about experience. If you spent the last good 15 years watching anime, then you’d know what to expect.

    It’s more about what a company does with a show, the source material, and what foot they put forward, than anything else.

    It really doesn’t help when, say, they put into their blurb about “how a boy is powerless and useless.”

    >>ILM

    So now we’re comparing Tomoyo with Himura Kenshin, are we? Kenshin uses something known as “restraint.” He uses his skills to merely defeat an opponent, not to outright kill him. And also; he gets defeated sometimes, but he works his way out of it. He can take what he can dish out. He’s neither a “Jesus Yamato” nor Tomoyo.

    And while I must thank you for answering my question; I just need to laugh at a couple of things:

    >>Good character interaction

    Youhei Sunahara being a douchebag and getting smacked around by nearly everybody. Sorry. Try again.

    >>Cute girls

    Really, though? That’s like a 85% of what the anime industry makes.

    >>Seriously, give it a try. Throw you preconceptions away and just watch it, one episode a day. After you finished, you can rant about how lousy it is and I will try to have a proper intellectual discussion with you.

    You guys should tell Key and Kyoto Animation to collectively pull their heads from out of their rears. And let them know that there are anime fans around the world who like something different from what they’re offering.

    Then, and only then, we can have an actual “intellectual discussion” about the shows they make.

    Comment by ILM
    2008-10-10 01:30:28

    >>Youhei Sunahara being a douchebag and getting smacked around by nearly everybody. Sorry. Try again.

    Good going. Making a blanket statement of a show’s character interaction based on an gag for comedy.

    Lets do one for Strike Witches! You stated they are three dimensional characters?

    They boob grab each other. Sorry. Try again.

    I find your last comment hilarious, though.

    >>You guys should tell Key and Kyoto Animation to collectively pull their heads from out of their rears. And let them know that there are anime fans around the world who like something different from what they’re offering.

    Please, they already know that. And guess what? They are not going to start catering to pretentious people who claim that their shows have bad writing and bad character interaction without even watching it.

    I will answer your other points later. (Sleep comes first)

     
     
    Comment by raikentb
    2008-10-10 01:38:21

    Funnily enough this whole drivel makes me want to watch Clannad now.

    Tyrenol: Actually, Otaku is a Japanese word referring to someone who is a hobbyist so it would be fitting if you referred to your self as such. Regardless of how you refer to yourself you are what you are :) It’s not limited to anime either. There are plamo otaku, idol otaku, etc. The word has less negative connotation in the states as opposed to Japan whereas if you wanted to be addressed there politely people would call you a maniac(マニアク).

    I can understand you not liking a series that’s popular but that’s also going to make it hard to have others that agree with you regardless of how you feel about it. You have to realize what you’re stating here is largely your opinion as opposed to facts.

     
    Comment by Qpax
    2008-10-10 02:43:20

    I lold at the end of page again xD!

     
    Comment by Tyrenol
    2008-10-10 03:57:56

    >>ILM: Please, they already know that. And guess what? They are not going to start catering to pretentious people who claim that their shows have bad writing and bad character interaction without even watching it.

    But that’s the beauty of “first impressions.”

    I said, “It’s what foot they put forward.” You put your best foot forward. You wouldn’t hang around somebody after a bad first impression, would you? (Unless you’re desperate.)

    >>raikentb: Actually, Otaku is a Japanese word referring to someone who is a hobbyist so it would be fitting if you referred to your self as such. Regardless of how you refer to yourself you are what you are :)

    Ah, but you’re not getting it.

    A “hobbyist” is someone who’s into something during his spare time (away from work and such). An “otaku” is someone who’s obsessive and with poor social skills. It’s a negative and insulting tag along the lines of “shouting the ‘N-word’ within Atlanta, Georgia, and hoping to leave alive.”

    (I, an African-American person, would never use the N-word. But I use the word “otaku” to describe a percentage of anime fans.)

    It’s funny, though.

    If “Clannad spices up my life” had been said instead of “Clannad IS life;” then maybe I wouldn’t've replied. But I was under the false impression that the otaku-tachi have a life. Or else “…IS life” wouldn’t have been stated. A translation error, maybe?

    Comment by Artefact
    2008-10-10 04:14:01

    Quoth the source of that phrase:

    はぁ、CLANNADは人生。

    Ahh, Clannad is life.

    Quite a strong statement I think you’ll agree. Clearly, some take Clannad very seriously.

    I’m still amused at the creator’s laziness in not bothering to find out what the term means and just filching it from the name of the band… In the age of Wikipedia there can be no excuse for such sloppiness.

     
    Comment by raikentb
    2008-10-10 05:24:39

    Ah but I do get it Tyrenol. Also I think you’ve got the wrong impression about the term otaku if you’re prepared to compare the term to a racial slur :) You’re contradicting yourself when you’re calling it a tag but then saying otaku have no lives. If it were true for all of them it wouldn’t be a stereotype. You can’t say it’s just a label people selfishly use but then go and say you’re not part of that group because you believe they all have no lives. You’re just afraid of being called that. Personally I can’t understand why since like I said earlier it’s not a big deal in the states. You wouldn’t give off such a strong impression that you’re like otaku if you didn’t make such an effort to prove otherwise.

    Comment by ern3sto
    2008-10-10 10:16:23

    so true, so true…

     
    Comment by Tyrenol
    2008-10-10 13:23:41

    So, in other words, here I am saying “I’m not an otaku.” And here you are saying “I am an otaku.”

    Another one of the many reasons why I hate otaku and state that I’m not one. You tend to take what people say and then turn it on their heads.

    You’ll watch a weaker guy get beatened up by women and call it “entertainment.” And now this?! Hey!

    Comment by raikentb
    2008-10-12 02:08:10

    I’m not the one turning it on it’s head. I’m saying it’s you who is doing that. You’re running out of actual counters to my argument and it’s funny. If you’re so scared of being labeled as an otaku you shouldn’t make such a spectacle of yourself in front of people you deem as such. It’s just backfiring on you. I can’t answer your last question since I haven’t seen the anime yet so I can’t really pass judgment on it and neither can you.

     
     
     
     
    Comment by ILM
    2008-10-10 09:31:39

    >>Tyrenol:But that’s the beauty of “first impressions.”
    I said, “It’s what foot they put forward.” You put your best foot forward. You wouldn’t hang around somebody after a bad first impression, would you? (Unless you’re desperate.)

    And you therefore prove yourself to be shallow. Insulting a entire show based on first impressions.

    Just asking, did you even watch the first episode? Because if you didn’t, it means that your “first impression” of CLANNAD is just second-hand info. (And insulting a show based on that is sad.)

     
    Comment by Jade
    2008-10-12 13:27:10

    Too much trolling guys~~~
    time to move on..

    if you hate the series so much and refuse to acknowledge its popularity.
    It doesn’t help even if you bring someone who can talk all the good thing abt Clannad that can even convince blind people to watch it

    I hate football/soccer…
    i do not question fellow soccer fans why they like those stuff where 24 people chasing for one ball
    or why they beat people just bcoz they are from different fansclub…

    just show some respect on other people interest…
    if you hate it, get lost dude~~

    do not start coming out with list of flaws Clannad had, when everything in this world always had flaws where you can poke into and start flaming

    Comment by retsnom
    2008-10-12 18:13:47

    Tyrenol.. just lol.

    I feel like I’m getting trolled, but hell, I’ll bite.

    Taking a “creative writing” class doesn’t make you a writer in anyway because, if it did, that would mean that I should be a connoisseur in variety of subjects, seeing all the different classes I’ve taken in college.

    It’s too bad, though. Instead of taking a creative writing class, it would’ve been better if you had taken a logics class, that way would’ve thought twice before you posted all the silly comments on